GWOA Dilemma
Im in a bit of a quandry. There are now 426 GWOA members and 426+ registered users of this forum but would imagine only a few of these are members. So what is the point pf having a club anymore :?: You get every thing you need now on here.
My question to members and non-memebrs are this:-
Non members:-
If you are not a member of the GWOA can you tell us why ?
Members.
What do you get out of the GWOA you wouldn't get from the forum.
Some of these replies may be used in a copy of g wizz.
i am a gwoa member and a user of this board.
i can see why people would say there is no point in being a member if you can still use the board, i would be happy to have my sub increased by a bit to make the site password accessible only.
without the gwoa i would never have met the large number number of good g blokes that i have, for instance ian watson and this peter perfect geezer !!!!
regards
Easy answer me thinks.
1) G-Whizz
2) Access to events like the Factory Tour
3) Meets
4) Access to club merchandies and buying power for things like brake cables
5) In my case access to superior knowledge, especially face to face
6) Ability to get access to hard to get parts via David, Howard etc.
However I do think we do not leverage the club enough for
1) buying power (insurance, parts)
2) don't organise enough events (both G and more social - look at french club)
3) in particular trips (look at german club)
There are a host of things we could do to add further value to the club... I'm sure you guys must be filled with further ideas.
I do not thinking making the entire board subscription only is the answer as there are a lot of people who just wouldn't use it then. And I think the bigger the community the better.
Maxwell has summed it all up, my thoughts exactly. I ain't even got one of the damn things, but evan as a fan of the G Wagen, being a member of the GWOA is good value.
I think the forums, barring the GWOA area, should be open to all, it's the best way to encourage new members.
I am not a member because I don't own a G yet!
But as soon as I do have one I will be joining because I can see just from this forum the wealth of information (that I will NEED) that I can get access to by joining.
The forum acts as a very good advert for the work of the GWOA and there's no way I'd have thought about joining before I ventured into the forum. If I was greeted by a webpage that said "members only - please pay" I'd have just scooted off to another website and probably forgot all about this site!
Using the website has made me appreciate the benefits of membership and as stated above I will definitely be joining once I get my hands on a G!
I hope this helps you to decide to keep the forum free for all.
(The best way around it may be to give only members permission to access a new room, so if something wanted to be said that didn't want to get into the general domain then it could be posted there instead).
There are now 426 GWOA members and 426+ registered users of this forum but would imagine only a few of these are members
I think that there are a lot more GWOA members using this forum than we know...
i am a gwoa member and a user of this board.
a case in point.... markvulture pm me your membership number and real name so I can add you.
(The best way around it may be to give only members permission to access a new room, so if something wanted to be said that didn't want to get into the general domain then it could be posted there instead).
There is...
I have only been a member for a week and a G owner for 5 days. I used this site for a few weeks to guide me in what to buy/what not to buy. It has been a huge help to me and with a programme of improvements in the pipeline, a lot more advice in the future.
If it were members/subscription I wouldnt have bothered and I think the volume of members and hence content would dwindle and not actually make it worth joining.
One question I would ask is, what benefits would I get from becoming a member? I have searched the forum to try and answer this myself and can only find the following;
Authorised members will see additional GWOA Member specific forums within this catergory in addition to this one. They will also have access to purchase G-Wagen merchandise.
In short, this isnt selling it to me as I dont know what sort of discussions there are in the member specific forums and what sort of merchandise. Jesus makes numerous references of access to buy the technical CD for a further £15. As I will need some kind of manual, I am joining but I have to say I do begrudge spending £40 to get a manual. I am hoping that my membership will give me a lot more but as I say, no one is selling the benefits. If a lot of people are joining purely for the CD, would it not be better to sell the CD to anyone for say £30 as I bet you would sell more ??????
I was a long term user of the Lexus owners club forum (LOC) which had the same rate of £25 but there was a clear understanding of what you got, including ....
Lexus dealer discounts of up to 15%
Club Discounts on merchandise and service providers
Attraction discounts such as Alton Towers, Madam Tusauds group
Numbered Gold membership card, and Club car stickers
Discounts available to protect & enhance your Lexus
Buy discounted performance or aftermarket products from stores within the UK, Japan & USA
Access to gold members' lounge area
Gold members' e-mail address
Gold member forum status
An active web forum, where members talk and exchange ideas on their projects with other gold members
A warm and comforting glow from knowing that you are not only a member of an exclusive club - but that you are also actively contributing to the success of the club.
The main reasons I joined LOC were for the 15% dealer discount which was very good considering the cost of Lexus parts. Also, the wealth of 'group buy' discounts that were only available to members, whether these were with large companies or back street machinists making exhaust parts. (Admittedly, they had buying power due to the large number of members, but quite often they only needed 20 people to buy something in order to get a significant discount) I have to say though that I got nothing else out of the members only forum which is why I am scepticle about what I will get from the GWOA members forum.
HOWEVER, one big thing that all of the members of LOC were ramming down the throats of all non members was that without the efforts of a few people, there would be no forum. By joining, you were investing in the upkeep of a great site by people who were doing it in their own time for free. The membership revenue enabled them to invest in better hard/software which was more reliable and therefore made the lives easier for those managing the site. For that reason, I have absolutely no problem in contributing my £25 towards this great site and the cheque is already in the post.
Hope this helps!!!!!
Thanks evista2000.
You raise some excellent points. Some which have been discussed before and we are looking at implementing . Some new ones we hadn't thought of or had been blinded too.
We greatly appreciate the feedback.
1 The members only section on this website is a waste of time as it currently stands, as it is not being used.
2 Insurance discouts that are available as a member of the gwoa are not any better than that of a non member from other Insurance companies.
3 In my opinion, the £25 subscription fee is ok, but instead of producing a magazine, why not invest that money in the website, to include owners photo's, know how sections etc.
4 Make part of the website open to all, (which would need to be very attractive, in order to gain paying members) and things like technical issues, for sales etc for members only.
I have to say that I find the website very informative, and generally take a look every day at the new posts, can't say that I ever refer back to issues of the magazine if i am searching for info though !
But then........this is only my opinion.
I didnt know there was a magazine. Surely this must cost a few quid to produce and distribute. Kind of an irony to produce a paper magazine for a purely Internet based audience - could this not be an electronic newsletter? :idea:
There are still plenty of people without a computer/ internet connection. I visit these forums often, that doesn't stop me from reading magazine. I certainly wouldn't want the magazine replaced with any form of e newsletter. There is still a place and need for the magazine along with the website and these forums.
The magazine is great, these forums are great, but the website needs sorting.
it seems that this forum has produced some new owners of g-wagens. by reading this site and questions being asked before they purchase a g wagen has encouraged them to buy and join. So when it comes to the website I think it should be important to show all the pro and cons of buying and owning a G wagen with illustrations. And asking companies to pay towards advertsing on it. When I was sub editor I managed to get Peter harris of kettering to offer 10% discount on all GWOA members. But the committe don't seem to be interested in pushing for this anymore. Although in the GWOA magazine there is a list of MB dealers, garages, SS exhaust companies and spring/shock absorber suppliers in the front page.
This site has no doubt been a success and the club magazine should now feed of it to benefit us all.
Discount is one good thing, but group buys can also work very well. I am not sure of the structure of the club and whether anyone would have the time but the group buys are great and with buying power of 10 - 20 people a company would be able to give a bulk discount and we, the punter gain from it as well.
Now this was very different with LOC as a lot of the members were big in to modifying their car and most of the deals were around that industry. Whereas with G owners, (well certainly me) are just striving to keep the car in a roadworthy condition so 10% discount at eurocarparts and german and swedish would be a huge help.
Further to Peter's question, I ask these questions:
1) What services would you expect the club to offer
2) What services would you like the club to to offer
3) What further services should GWOA members get from the website?
4) How much would you realistically expect to pay for these services?
I thought that I might add my two bob's worth to this discussion. I am a remote (Australian) non-member participant in this forum and love the sharing of ideas, experience, sources etc. Out in the antipodes these vehicles that are the focus of our obsessions are rare and the chance to participate in forums such as this (and the US Forum) is fantastic.
I am already a member of two car clubs (Historic Rally Association and Peugeot Car Club of Victoria) and have had various honarary positions including President and Editor. I well know the benefits of belonging to a club and understand the matters that have been raised above. I have always seen that the club magazine (and in this case the forum) serve a few different purposes. Firstly to disseminate information to club members such as up-coming events, special offers, trip reports etc. Secondly we have the promotion of the club and its ideals. Thirdly, general information about the club objective.
I'm not sure whether the GWOA has a club charter but the HRA for example has a primary statement in the Club Charter that specifically talks about promoting interest and participation in Historic Rallying. It does this in any way possible and even provides club magazines to retail outlets etc for dissemination to the general public. Whether this ends in another membership is not so important as promoting the interest in our form of motorsport.
In my humble opinion the GWOA forum similarly provides a means to promote the interest in the G while also providing members and non-members a forum to exchange ideas, experience and opinion. For those lucky enough to be in the UK, club membership offers the further opportunity to participate in club events and take advantage of group buying initiatives etc.
I guess that I am saying that I would hate to see this forum become limited to members only. Both members and non-members benefit from the healthy and often vigorous information exchange. It would be a pity to see that go. I have personally enjoyed being able to offer advice as well as take it.
FWIW
John
i personally feel that the forum is a great resource as well.
however the forum does cost the club, both financially and in terms of certain members and officials time and effort.
therefore if you think that the forum is a good source of help and info and you participate on it dont you think it would be fair to stick your hand in your pocket for a fairly minimal cost to be a member instead of freeloading you tight git?
regards marky b
Ouch Mark.....
I like the bit where he says " Lucky enough to be in the UK" :shock: Do you a swap matey 8)
f freeloading you tight git?
steady marky boy, he's made an effort to contribute to the forum, He might even be interested in sending me some piccys of his G and writing about it so I can include it in a future copy of the full colour G wizz. It would nice for us limeys to read about other enthusiasts from other planets.
if you would like to write about your G and send me photos please send it to ianwatsoni@aol.com and I can use it or send it on to our editor. :idea:
Laters
I havn't joined yet but probably will once i get into it properly & have met a few of you at various meets.
Your club collects some of its members by the very fact that when G- Wagen is typed in a search engine, your site comes up. That's how i came to find it.
When one runs all sorts of different types of car it is not always finacially possible to join every single club that caters for your car.
The Mercedes-Benz club has had this discussion numerous times & have settled on the Web site being partially open to the public but with the forum & some other technical parts closed to members.
This is something that your club has obviously thought about & decided on the open forum.
Moan at your club if you like Mark but not people who are taking an interest in your club.
my comment probably came out a bit stronger than intended....
but my point was that i feel the forum is a product of the club and it deserves peoples support.on the forum its probably true to say that the more knowledgeable people you will get help/info from are much more likely to be members ie ian,jesus,bill et al.
and besides the gwagen is a mercedes product.
its very well built/engineered.
its not very likely to go wrong, or very often.
so....if you baulk at the idea of paying club subs then you mat be in for a bit of a surprise when it comes to repair time !!!!!!
and the best way to avoid this is to get info from here as to cheaper parts breakers with bits for sale etc !!!!
regards
I certainlly didn't take any offence to Mark's comment. Where we would be if we couldn't say what we thought - boring.
I think that everyone acknowledges and applauds the contribution that the forum moderators make and certainly I appreciate that the forum is a GWOA innovation. The only comment of Mark's that I don't necessarily agree with, is that the font of all G knowledge is contained within the GWOA membership anyway. The wider the reach of the Forum the broader the knowledge base - in my humble opinion anyway.
What I wasn't aware of is that the forum costs money to run (other than the time of those previously mentioned heroes - the moderators). While I would love to receive the club magazine, and participate in club events, bulk buys etc. the tyranny of distance makes this impractical. So I guess it comes down to:
Would I pay around $100 Australian per year for Gee Whiz and participation in the Forum? Obviously the (relatively) healthier state of the pound over the Aussie dollar works against me here, and I would probably say no.
Would I be prepared to pay a lesser amount to participate in the forum and help cover those (forum) costs. Yes.
Once again, just an outsiders opinion.
John
PS Peter, I would be happy to send you some pictures of my G and brief rundown. Having been an editor of a club magazine, I know how important the contributors are.
Would I pay around $100 Australian per year for Gee Whiz and participation in the Forum? Obviously the (relatively) healthier state of the pound over the Aussie dollar works against me here, and I would probably say no.
Would I be prepared to pay a lesser amount to participate in the forum and help cover those (forum) costs. Yes.
I have just worked out that 100 units of your exotic currency are today equal to £ 40.9.
This means that out moderate annual membership fee of £ 25 is equivalent to 61.1 of your exotic currency units. I ignore whether such amount would, in your opinion, merit the inconmensurable benefits associated with the membership but I can assure you that it does in mine. I can also say that if I had to value my association with the GWOA (and my dedication to it) at market value rates I would by now be a millionaire.... Fortunately I don't (as many others) and this makes the existence of both the GWOA and its forum a reality.
Best regards
Jesús,
IIt just shows you how backward we are down-under (now don't all rush to agree with me - after all more of you guys in the UK watch Neighbours than we do!).
I somehow mistakenly had the impression that the GWOA membership fee was 40 quid and not 25. This is a far more reasonable amount and after your eloquent words regarding the joys of membership, how could I refuse. Now if only you guys would take Paypal my life would be easy. I am downloading the membership form straight after this post.
John
Hooray!
We definitely need to do something regarding payment of prospective non-UK members.
Hold tight.
Cheers
As a non paying member, I have some reservations to locking down the web site to paying members only.
There are some things that will not exist to a closed shop and its members....
When an individual wants to sell a part or a Gwagen, will the selling field be restricted?
When you need the input about a problem, will your response always come from a full time member or some outsider who may have experienced that exact trouble?
I know someone has to pay for the servers, and I know the money has to come from some one.
Why not do as other forums do, sell ad space....Tires, parts, and accessories. Everyone is looking for hard to find items and a gwagen is definitely one of a kind. In the USA and other parts of the world, parts and accessories for the Gwagens are scarce, you have the potential to open a highly saught after market. Why not capitalize on it and make some change while having a good time :D ?
FYI, I am in the middle of Sudan, and very fortunately with web access but at excruciatingly slow baud rates, currently based in China with my G home in Malaysia.
Personally, I’d fully agree on having the forums open for without it, we would not be able to sample the benefits of owning a G (or wanting to own a G), appreciate that there are other “G crazy� people around and be linked to their extensive knowledge & experience.
From such distances, it is understood that it would be impossible to participate in the club events, meetings and establish eyeball QSO’s, but as already mentioned, access to troubleshooting know how, parts and accessories would perhaps be reasons for joining…. but as there are no fees currently associated to having this access, perhaps the main reason for joining could be in support of the great efforts and achievements put to this web site and association!!
I think I represent many, including Oatway (Dublin) and Tahir (London) is saying that there would be many many more who would like to support GWOA by being members, especially from abroad the UK.
Some suggestions to help with external recruitment:
1.With many postings on how to pay fees where some had suggested PayPal ….. I think this would the main hurdle.
2.Choice in having the club magazine in hardcopy or electronic (wonder if this has been sorted during the last AGM :? )
3.For fees, it would be good to have yearly membership, 5 or 10 yearly membership and perhaps, lifetime membership categories (with adjusted nominal annual fees) … I know I’d go for the latter if it is within my budget :wink: .
4.Perhaps it is possible to organize for GWOA car emblems and windscreen stickers, shirts/jerseys unique to GWOA – free with the initial membership (and have it as an additional token with the annual fees regardless of membership category). With the cool GWOA logo, I am sure we have some talented artiste within our midst to whip out classy/classic designs - I’d be happy to participate and get a free jersey :wink: . If it is all too expensive in the UK, I would be pleased to assist in manufacturing … after all, I am in China :) ! Basically, it is important to have something to signify that you are a part of this “prestigious� association.
5.Recognise proxy votes during AGMs.
Last but not least, it would be excellent if GWOA membership payment and registration could be as simple as being a member to the forum, ie, have a section on the home page for joining the GOWA as paid member and the facility for secure fund transfer, etc…
Perhaps some of these may have been addressed, but my standpoint as a non-paying-member and wanting to one, it would be great to see GOWA take on this direction.
By the way .. ?25 is a lot of exotic money where I come from … :roll:
after skim reading the forum...
i am not CURRENTLY a paid member, but i have always had the plan that as soon as i have one parked up i will sort it out, i know there has been various queries since the last agm.
as for the forum, i myself would never have been able to get this much information on purchasing a g if it wasnt for it, and as a prospective buyer i do feel supported knowing i have the forum regulars to fall back on if my g plays up (rare but you never know).
but i agree the club needs more funding, and a larger stance needs to be made in order to get insurance companies etc to recognise us more.
interesting issue and a vital one too.
Tom
Oops .. didn't realise it was so long .... wrote it offline! :roll: Thanks for posting & hope to hear of more opinions posted, especially from those who are not yet full GWOA members and would like to play a supporting (funded) role to this G-reat association in the near future.
Cheers,
Jeff
Humble apologies to all .. I have ONLY just accessed the "Home Page" to GWOA at http://www.gwagenowners.co.uk/ :oops:
To until a few moments ago, I have been looping only around the forum's Home Page as the "Home" option does not take me to the main GWOA page.
Nevertheless, to improve the clubs funding through membership, we could still do with a more convenient way for membership registering and fund transfer. :roll:
JOIN THE GWOA
This website and forum are provided for the benefit of enthusiasts and owners of all Mercedes Benz off road vehicles, in particular the G Wagen. The costs of development, upkeep and provision of the site are met entirely by the annual subscriptions of club members. If you are using the site and are not a member of the G Wagen Owners Association please consider joining. You will have access to areas on the site that are not open to non members, to club trips and meetings and to technical assistance. In addition your contribution (only £25 annually) will help us maintain and develop our website for future users.
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just the replies I was looking for. For your info Evista most if not all the benefits you got from the LOC was available in the GWOA. But as usual politics prevale and these areas declined, Thats why I need your comments to put forward to the next committe meeting.
Please keep them coming so we can get an idea of how to improve and where we need to take this, just take a look at the french, and italian sites.