G500 modifications

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Anakreon
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The post refers to a stock 69,000km 2005 SWB G500 and to its owner’s ramblings.
1) I always found the suspension setup too soft: the car was all over the place. I also wanted an inch more clearance underneath. Camber slightly out on the left front wheel and steering damper decorative. I splashed out: 4 Eibach springs & Bilstein adjustable shock absorbers from ORC (decisions taken before current financial crisis). I did not get spacers to lift cabin. In all innocence I anticipated the job to be a doddle. Underside went up by 5cm and behavior firmed up BUT the chassis not suspended symmetrically from the wheels with the car at rest. Culprit: fixed length Panhard rods. Putting ill-fitting thinking cap on, I carried out a modification and made them lengthwise adjustable without weakening - on the contrary. Now the chassis sits symmetrically on the wheels, i.e. evenly distributed along its central longitudinal axis. Vive la difference. An interesting but doubtful project would be installing a rear anti-roll-bar because of the increased height of the car but I do not know how much it will affect it off-road.
2) I changed all front wheel bearings. I found one of the top “steering” bearings disintegrating on the RH wheel. Major hassle. Now tracking, toe-in & camber are perfect. Capo lavoro. A mishap: I used a new pair of ABS front sensors. The old ones broke when taking them off their housing. They were frozen-stuck. After new ones were in place, the ABS light came on and traction electronics went berserk at 190km/h. I traced the fault to too much and clumsily applied grease in one of the bearing housings obstructing sensor’s “view”. They are extremely sensitive regarding their seating arrangement inside their housing. Watch out.
3) In the spirit of things, I went for some experimenting: I made brackets and fitted 2 (two) “heavy duty” MB steering dampers in parallel but opposite each other. Works wonders off-road. Downside: steering dead on tarmac. Nevertheless it affords less free-play on rack & pinion without punishing the system. It is “knife-edge” accurate.
4) I designed & hand-made a new exhaust system for the car. For fun. I aimed for a simplified system. I kept the stock down-tubes and all bracketry. I did not use a balance pipe. I started fwd of the front catalysts and worked backwards with a large catalyst and a huge silencer (capable of min 3,500cm³) – each side. Tubing at Ф 54mm instead of the standard 47mm. RHS tube after silencer goes up the wheel arch, under the frame (inbound) and exhausts below & right of the rear differential universal joint. Similarly goes the LHS. My unorthodox way has its drawbacks but affords a “free” system which muffles noise better than exhausting directly under the door. Increased pipe length after the “free” silencers gives a marginally flatter torque curve. I welded all the structure in-situ in one piece, cut it up where convenient for future dismantling, removed it to the work-bench, bent & TIG welded new Corten pipes, fitted proper metallic joints and braced both exhausts together above the frame. Noise is an addictive basso profundo on the legal side of the rules. Bearable to the environmentally conscious “her-indoors” & adolescent “Prius-type” brats. I have kept the stock exhaust which can go back any time.
5) I also renewed the differential locking vacuum pump and associated rubber pipe joints which were found eaten by mice (see post at “General Technical”).

Know the saying “easier said than done”? Procedure took two months to think-out & complete.
Are the modifications sacrilegious? Maybe.
Am I happy? After elbow grease, €€€€ expended & grazed knuckles, I better be.
Am I ill guided? Possibly but there are worst cases at large.

PS. Apologies if my magnum opus confuses: I find it difficult to explaim clearly.

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mortinson
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Re: G500 modifications

:shock: I gather that you have not been bored lately....

But I think it's way too much money and time spent in a virtually brand new car...

Anakreon
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Re: G500 modifications

You are correct regarding car's age but...I did it for me.
Working on weekends and evenings clears my mind.
Expenditure abt 2,600 euros + my time.

Anakreon
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Re: G500 modifications

for suspension, steering and exhaust

hus55
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Re: G500 modifications

i thought us turks were bad enough.......obviously not :wink:

M2dxb
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Re: G500 modifications

PHOTOS please..especialllly of the underside (on a lift of course, you must have one in the garage ;p)

Roly
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Re: G500 modifications

I would be interested in photos of the exhaust setup too. Do the newer 500s have the exhaust coming out on both sides of the engine or only on the rightside?

Anakreon
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Re: G500 modifications

I have a lift. I will get pics with my mobile. How do I post them?
Roly, exhausts come out from the manifolds both sides (V8 longitudinally mounted), travel along the car aft (catalyst then silencer) in parallel and outboard of the chassis square longitudinal members. The tubes at the end of each silencer go above the respective wheel arch, go over the frame, both enter a single transversely mounted aft silencer from which a single pipe comes out exhausting under the door. Tubing is extremely complicated after the frame iwo 3rd silencer.

M2dxb
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Re: G500 modifications

If you can't figure out the posting here (when you hit "reply" there's a button at the bottom for adding attachments, which include photos) just drop me a PM and I'll give you an email address, then I can post them...

Anakreon
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Re: G500 modifications

I am away for a few days. On my return I will comply.

M2dxb
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Re: G500 modifications

And here are the photos...exhaust part 1

M2dxb
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Re: G500 modifications

exhaust part 2

M2dxb
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Re: G500 modifications

last exhaust pic, plus beginning of panhard rod set

M2dxb
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Re: G500 modifications

final panhard rod set and beginning of steering set

M2dxb
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Re: G500 modifications

final steering set

M2dxb
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Re: G500 modifications

Great work...my only concern would be melting the asphalt under the car if you rev it too much in one spot. Towards the front of the transmission/rear of engine there are like 2 dampers to each side...haven't noticed them before on a G..

hus55
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Re: G500 modifications

whats with the blue springs brother?

very informative pics btw...

Anakreon
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Re: G500 modifications

Apart from the double steering dampers there are no other damper mods. Which pic do you mean?

Anakreon
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Re: G500 modifications

The blue springs are made by Eibach and sold by ORC. They are progressive and harder than OE. Have a look at my original post.

hus55
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Re: G500 modifications

i have the sam ones being fitted to my G300 right now as we speak :wink:

cant wait to test them tomorrow. [over our local speed humps!! :oops: ]

M2dxb
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Re: G500 modifications

Tried to point them out with the arrows...

hus55
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Re: G500 modifications

well spotted m2dxb

please explain!

Anakreon
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Re: G500 modifications

On V8 engines (as fitted on G-wagens - diesel & petrol), there are two small but hard :lol: dampers installed, one each side of the block. At the other end they attach via silent blocks to the frame. The object is to resist & dampen the tendency of the engine to "revolve" around its crankshaft when the driver suddenly gets the munchies to be heavy on the gas.

Roly
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Re: G500 modifications

I get the idea of the exhaust now. Separate systems on LHS/RHS. I can't see the rear transverse silencer you mentioned. Just the 2 down pipes above the rear diff.
On the early 500s the exhaust from the LHS of the engine crosses over to the RHS behind the engine and then joins together to form a single system. I can't work out why, the twin system seems easier to make. What was yours like originally?
Did you buy the large silencers or have them custom built? Nice work.
How much to ship to the UK :D ?

M2dxb
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Re: G500 modifications

Aha sorted, I'll have to look under the older G500 one day to see if it has those too...

Anakreon
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Re: G500 modifications

Roly,
Earlier G500 OE systems are vastly different to my car's OE.

The original exhaust system is exactly like my contraption, with two differences:
1) I use 54mm Corten pipes instead of the OE 47mm.
2) OE have a 3rd rear silencer seating transversely over the rear axle into which both LHS & RHS systems merge and from which a single pipe comes out exhausting under the front door. I omitted it and exhausted the pipes directly at the side of the rear differential without interconnecting them by a silencer or pipe. My doubt in removing the OE transverse silencer (which functioned also as a balancer between the two independent systems) centered on the possibility of ruining the pulses of the system. This could have had a negative effect on torque. I am happy to report that all is well.

I have done 2,000km with the new arrangement. When I reach abt 7,000km I will remeassure power and torque (it is not easy to find free time on a rolling 4x4 power tester).

Catalysts and silencers were bought ready made.

mortinson
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Re: G500 modifications

Anakreon wrote:
Roly,
Earlier G500 OE systems are vastly different to my car's OE.

The original exhaust system is exactly like my contraption, with two differences:
1) I use 54mm Corten pipes instead of the OE 47mm.
2) OE have a 3rd rear silencer seating transversely over the rear axle into which both LHS & RHS systems merge and from which a single pipe comes out exhausting under the front door. I omitted it and exhausted the pipes directly at the side of the rear differential without interconnecting them by a silencer or pipe. My doubt in removing the OE transverse silencer (which functioned also as a balancer between the two independent systems) centered on the possibility of ruining the pulses of the system. This could have had a negative effect on torque. I am happy to report that all is well.

I have done 2,000km with the new arrangement. When I reach abt 7,000km I will remeassure power and torque (it is not easy to find free time on a rolling 4x4 power tester).

Catalysts and silencers were bought ready made.

Excellent setup but... what about prices?

Anakreon
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Re: G500 modifications

Mortinson,
Please let me know exactly which prices are of interest. I have indicated a cost of abt 2,600 euro for suspension, exhaust and steering experimentation materials - excluding the cost of one steering damper: anyway I had to change the decorative one fitted.

To my mind the interesting modification is the one carried out on the Panhard rods. Cheap and effective.

Tyreman
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Re: G500 modifications

Nice job,

And as you mention it,cool bit of work on the panhard rods. I presume they are lockable and adjustable too so you can get your settings right?

The very first thing I broke off roading was my steering damper and guess what the second thing I broke was?

Yes, Right again, my second steering damper.

Now, guess what I dont have anymore? Yep! a steering damper.

I wish you the very best of luck with yours and keep away from tree stumps unlike me.

Regards,

Mike

Anakreon
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Re: G500 modifications

Tyreman,
Lockable and adjustable - of course.
It is a pleasure to drive the car accurately adjusted.

What do you think about my idea to fit a rear antiroll bar?
The increased height of the car reminds me of the Edgar Allan Poe story "Pit and the Pendulum"... :shock:

mortinson
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Re: G500 modifications

Anakreon wrote:
Mortinson,
Please let me know exactly which prices are of interest. I have indicated a cost of abt 2,600 euro for suspension, exhaust and steering experimentation materials - excluding the cost of one steering damper: anyway I had to change the decorative one fitted.

To my mind the interesting modification is the one carried out on the Panhard rods. Cheap and effective.

Thanks, I missed the 2,600 total.I was just curious about a ballpark figure...

Tyreman
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Re: G500 modifications

Anakreon wrote:
Tyreman,
Lockable and adjustable - of course.
It is a pleasure to drive the car accurately adjusted.

What do you think about my idea to fit a rear antiroll bar?
The increased height of the car reminds me of the Edgar Allan Poe story "Pit and the Pendulum"... :shock:

Fit the rear anti roll bar if most of your work is fast road. If you intend on a bit of off road and play days the anti roll bar will limit your articulation a bit.

Great to see you grab the bull by the horns and do the work you talked about on a vehicle thats so new.

Regards,

Mike

Anakreon
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Re: G500 modifications

Mike,
Indeed I am sceptical about the articulation limits. Has anybody tried it before off road?

All works carried out are reversible. OE parts are sleeping safely in my garage.

Inspite of the beast in their DNA, late G500s have been sanitised all over. Too much. Nevertheless my modifications do not stand to reason for such a new car. I carried them out just for the hell of it & in the hope I would enjoy both process and result.

So far so good. :wink:

Would I recommend them?
I definitely would the Panhard rods. In fact I wonder how can people raise their cars without addressing the issue. Dont they realise they are driving a twisted set-up? Imagine a large heavy bookcase on high castor-wheels travelling on public roads at speed. At the very least it should be straight as an arrow. :shock:

James_Van_Thach
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Re: G500 modifications

Anakreon,

Great work !

Thank you for sharing.

Respectfully,

James Van Thach

Anakreon
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Re: G500 modifications

Thank you James :D

Anakreon
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Re: G500 modifications

Something of interest to those who have lifted their cars:
By changing the geometry, in effect the differentials "revolve" around their wheel axes. The differential-cover instead of being almost perpendicular to the ground now is close to 30 degrees (to the vertical). The lubricant filling/level hole changes position and, in my case, the rear differential now holds 1.2ltrs (instead of 1.8ltrs) before overflowing. I think the lubrication of the rear wheel bearings also suffer": I noticed the outer case of the RH bearing was "blueing".
In addition, by fitting a clear plastic homemade differential cover to a normal G and then to mine, I saw that to achieve the same level of lubricant relative to the wheel axes, I now have to use 1,95ltrs in my car(this way lubrication of rear wheel bearings is as was).
A second filling tap perhaps fitted higher up...???
Similar considerations might apply to the front differential.
Am I making sense?
Any comments?

M2dxb
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Re: G500 modifications

Valid point, I doubt many people go that far in analysing it unless they do the work themselves. There must be a reason MB specify that volume of oil in there, any less might mean the diff gears suffer, not a cheap experiment!

mortinson
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Re: G500 modifications

You certainly are a perfectionist! I wouldn't worry too much about having a slightly smaller amount of oil there but I would compensate for this by changing the oil more often.... I say this on the basis of seeing many lifted Gs around here, running for many miles without problems. In any event, I agree that the best solution would be to drill another hole higher up, assuming that this is feasible...

hus55
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Re: G500 modifications

Anakreon whats your profesion?

you must be an engineer of some sort. your info and attention to detail is of a doctors level :wink:

did you follow the thesselonika challenge by any chance??

i wouldnt be suprised if you are involved with some of the G's in the challenge.

rgds hus

Anakreon
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Re: G500 modifications

My concern was the colour of the outer case of the rear RH wheel bearing turning blue. I suspected high temperature therefore deficient lubrication (rear wheel bearings are fed their lubricant from the differential - no grease there).

Maybe people who have lifted their cars did not change the differential oil and are still running with the old quanity inside. Anyway the difference between 1,8ltrs and 1,2ltrs is about 30% less - perhaps too much for comfort.

Yesterday - Sunday - was a miserable day pissing incessantly. So I removed a complete tap-cum-thread from a discarded military G differential cover. These taps are fine conical affairs, really difficult to make and worth keeping. I opened a 41mm hole in the cover (7cm up from the original hole) with my cutting lathe and inserted accurately the old tap-thread in place. Argon welded from the inside and, for cosmetic reasons, TIG welded from the outside.
Now I can adjust the level of oil.

Huss, thnks for yr comment but I am an nothing: I just enjoy the process.. :shock: .

mortinson
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Re: G500 modifications

Anakreon wrote:
My concern was the colour of the outer case of the rear RH wheel bearing turning blue. I suspected high temperature therefore deficient lubrication (rear wheel bearings are fed their lubricant from the differential - no grease there).

Maybe people who have lifted their cars did not change the differential oil and are still running with the old quanity inside. Anyway the difference between 1,8ltrs and 1,2ltrs is about 30% less - perhaps too much for comfort.

Yesterday - Sunday - was a miserable day pissing incessantly. So I removed a complete tap-cum-thread from a discarded military G differential cover. These taps are fine conical affairs, really difficult to make and worth keeping. I opened a 41mm hole in the cover (7cm up from the original hole) with my cutting lathe and inserted accurately the old tap-thread in place. Argon welded from the inside and, for cosmetic reasons, TIG welded from the outside.
Now I can adjust the level of oil.

Huss, thnks for yr comment but I am an nothing: I just enjoy the process.. :shock: .

Speechless :shock: I am speechless :D

Anakreon
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Re: G500 modifications

Here are two pics

hus55
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Re: G500 modifications

anakreon hi there.

i am passing through greece in january, might stop off while you do the same to my G300 :wink:

Anakreon
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Re: G500 modifications

Send me a PM near the time.
If I am in Greece, I will take you out for a beer.

hus55
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Re: G500 modifications

cheers !!

btw, would you know if there is a ferry service from italy to port in greece in late january early febuary?

Anakreon
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Re: G500 modifications

Hus I will PM u

hus55
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Re: G500 modifications

got it, many thanks!

Anakreon
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Re: G500 modifications

I am due a few days of holiday therefore, silly me, I have decided to try fitting a rear antiroll bar BUT with a twist :wink: .
I will attempt to design and try to make a self-aligning quick release solid contraption, welded somewhere along the transverse length of the antiroll bar.
The idea is to be able to disengage the bar easily to preserve axle articulation off-road and, what is more important, re engage it easily with the car on uneven ground. To cater for on road frolicking.
I will keep the forum advised of my probable failure.
Be lenient.

Ideas are welcome.

hus55
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Re: G500 modifications

you are folowing the quick release 'disconnects' my brother has on his wrangler :wink: very very effective device indeed :!:

Anakreon
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Re: G500 modifications

Huseyin do you have any details of the device?

hus55
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Re: G500 modifications

i will ask him,and foward you the link.

but try looking under rubicon express susupension lift etc...