Sprinter life and ratios + 290td intercooling?
I have an eye on a 99 312 sprinter which is the 290td to fit to an 88 460 300GDS 5 speed.
Done 280,000 miles .. now if serviced... seems 350,000 miles is not an issue and my mileage will be only 4-5k a year so that is 10 years.. or what is the realistic life of these engines/gearboxes?
Second is 5th a 1:1 ratio? so that with an adapter prop to the transfer box I should be able to use gearbox and keep pretty much the same ratios? That way I bypass the weak Getrag but keep a manual box.. or are the ratios messed up?
I know Tranex has done one in NZ.. he did sump, inlet, chassis mounts.. but how does the intercooler piping work.. Howard's 461 seems to show pipes through the inner wing and a second radiator cap which seems to show an air/water intercooler with secondary intercooler water rad in front of engine rad??
If changing the engine why not change the gearbox too. My conclusion was the 711.117 box from the 207/307 van was the best ratio ( I have this with the 230 and it is a transformation) 4.7 1st amd overdrive 5th.
The sprinter box has the shift coming out of the box top and is too far forward to work and there are vibration problems without the remote linkage.
Have sent a PM
You could try this
http://www.gwoa.co.uk/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5286
have you considered the Musso engine
http://www.gwoa.co.uk/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5423
240bhp in 1 tonne :shock: I'd be happy for that in my 2 tonne :lol:
Musso's do look tempting as cheap but rare .. cost of the inlet manifold is 300 Euro that you would save .. here is the shopping list if you go with the air/water intercooler from a 461 installation.. thanks for the EPC link; add to this for prices; http://dicp.ghb.fh-furtwangen.de/~andreas/parts.php?category=A&partnumbe...
Does the van gearbox have an oil cooler.. I did not see one .. we could dump the oil cooler and move the radiator 2" sideways (but are there not issues with the bottom radiator pipe nearly hitting the engine?).. then put a recirculating/U shaped air intercooler in front of radiator by sneaking past the hole created on turbo side... plus you could get a cold air intake for the air filter.. but that would be bad for wading. Anyway .. whole lot cheaper and better than the OEM air/water cooler setup for outright performance but I guess air/air intercoolers do get heat soak when idling.
Then want to loose that engine cooling fan for electrics.. worth another 1-2 mpg.. may even hit 28 mpg with that...
Sump is still 400 Euros... gulp! Time to buy an AC single phase TIG and go welding aluminium.. especially as you could save inlet manifold, cross over pipe and sump... and then build the exhaust in stainless..
Parts to install Sprinter
Inlet manifold = A 602 090 05 37 LUFTLEITUNG 230,91 € 267,86 €
Inlet manifold/head gasket A 603 141 08 80 DICHTUNG 8,55 € 9,92 €
Inlet manifold to cross pipe rubber A 602 098 04 83 SCHLAUCH 22,76 € 26,40 €
Jubilee x2 for cross pipe rubber A 006 997 27 90 BINDER 1,18 € 1,37 €
Cross pipe A 602 140 01 12 ROHRLEITUNG 26,69 € 30,96 €
Intercooler water pump A 001 835 11 64 UMWÄLZPUMPE 134,71 € 156,26 €
Intercooler water thermo switch A 124 540 02 44 SCHALTER 16,65 € 19,31 €
Intercooler water radiator A 461 500 04 00 KÜHLER 244,30 € 283,39 €
Intercooler air/water exchanger A 461 500 03 00 KÜHLER 516,30 € 598,91 €
Feed pipe from exchanger to air sensor A 461 528 01 82 SCHLAUCH 39,43 € 45,74 €
Feed pipe from turbo to exchanger A 461 528 00 82 SCHLAUCH 45,52 € 52,80 €
Chassis mount engine front left A 460 241 24 02 TRÄGER 42,79 € 49,64 €
Chassis mount engine top right A 460 241 17 02 TRÄGER 16,69 € 19,36 €
Chassis mount engine bottom right A 460 241 18 02 TRÄGER 17,88 € 20,74 €
Sump A 602 014 26 02 ÖLWANNE 360,41 € 418,08 €
Sump timing cover plate A 602 014 01 33 VERSCHL.DECKEL 35,93 € 41,68 €
Sump sensor sensor plug A 601 010 01 67 ABDECKBLECH 8,79 € 10,20 €
Bloody hell you've been busy :shock:
First here's a link for parts in english
I think the 290 usually has a separate oil cooler and I'm pretty sure it's on the side of the engine in Howard Greens.
I will copy that CD tonight and get it to you asap.
Tanex put the sprinter in to a 230 straight on to the bell ie. without moving the box back.
he also used the original 230 radiator.
I had thought of putting the intercooler infront of the rad and going for a tripple core if neccessary.
I would probably go with the canadian snorkel for cooler air and whilst I would prefer to keep the aircleaner( much better than any raised cyclone) it may have to be changed if more space needed.
Living in aberdeen you must have some pretty good tig welders around if you don't want to buy a welder.
I've just bought a set of cosworth headers on ebay4-2-1 (£10) to try on my 230 and I must say i'm quite inspired - so if the musso manifold didn't fit that might be the way to go.
You might be interested to read this
http://www.pointedthree.com/disc/forums/showthread.php?tid=1689&posts=40...
Thats too much typing for me I need food
Chris
Hum... tuning a 617 n/a .. even more dosh .. he did get to 120 hp right enough but that would be gas flow ie rpm/hp not bottom end torque. I was looking at Myra Finnish injection pumps to get a 617a up to 150 hp without any other tunning but a 617 and a 617a has limits to the amount of fuel you can get out of the injection pump without that sort of serious rework.
602/622 would give 120/125 hp out of the box with a lot more torque and can be chipped easy to 150 hp..
Yes 602 has an oil cooler but it is a oil/water cooler (as you say at the back on the block) not the oil/air cooler on the 617 up by the radiator... and I suspect the 461 auto box is using up that space but we are going manual without need for oil cooler .. hence no need for that space beside the radiator.
Need castings for engine mounts from block to top of mount.. rubbers seem to be 460 numbers but lower mount plate is new part too.
Whole engine with covers is 10,000 Euro :lol:
Anyway .. not something I need today .. buying scrapper Sprinter with 280,000 miles for £900.. but it did have tax/mot if a very bent body/interior. I now have a Word doc with EPC screen shots to break down most of the parts required..
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Dentysmithy,
Thanks for PM, reply sent.
Yes I wanted to use the Sprinter gearbox complete from the victim but could not find any ratios to check the gearing... but as most boxes are 1:1 in top gear it is should not be an issue unless it had an ultra high 1st which is unlikely in a van.. but better to check before you plunge! Did not really want to go messing with another Sprinter gearbox :cry: but I will have to no doubt take your advice after a look for myself.
Anyway.. Sprinters seem to be creeping down to real prices considering what it would really cost to get a 617a transported from Euro/US. Only blot so far will be insurance companies hate engine transplants so you will be loaded £2-300 PA but as mine will be a winter exchange on a policy from a pretty modified summer car of 240hp in 1 ton it will not matter.
Now if I could only understand the Russian site it would help but not worked it out yet! ... or get that dodgy EPC to run again.. or maybe do that proper club thing..