280 or 300??

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zeecontainer
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Hi G-class enthusiasts!
I'm new to this forum and have already browsed thru tons of posts: what an informative site! I'm not new to older mercs, though, having owned a 280se w116 (s-class) for 7 years. I just sold it and now have money to spend on a G. But the big question is which one should I go for?

Here in the Netherlands we don't just have very expensive petrol but also very steep 'road tax' which is based on weight and fuel type. A 300GDL would cost about 170 euro's a MONTH in road tax, a 280GEL/300GEL about 100 Euro's. When vehicles are 25 yrs or over, they're exempt from the road tax.
So it's obvious that a 280GEL from '79 to '82 would be the best if you want power, but then there's the expensive petrol, which makes most people put in LPG. (which makes the road tax for younger cars as expensive as diesel). The problem is that most older G's have had a rough life somewhere in the Alps (and were imported only recently), are rare and thus pricey (10.000 to 12500 euros). Because of the road tax younger and more modern and luxurious G's, like the 300GE w463, are priced about the same or only slightly higher. And they've usually enjoyed a better life.

So, aside from all the financial aspects, I'm trying to decide what would be the better engine, the 280E or the 300E? Does one notice the higher output, or is it wasted on the all time 4x4? Reliability-wise is there a favourite? What are the main technical difference (in handling and over all drivability) between the w460 and the w463?
Has anyone been thru the same dilemma?

Thanks for the advice!

maarten

jonnyboy
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Re: 280 or 300??

I have a 280gel (1988) which is a great car, and the engine is actually from a 280ce which gives more bhp (good for on road, for off road you need to look at the torque).

Ive also had a 300se and was hugely impressed by the engine - mine had not been looked after well, but following a new camshaft and head gasket it ran like a sewing machine - very torquey more than powerful for a heavy car like the s class. If i had my way and the funds i'd have bought a 463 300 longbase, the interiors are a lot nicer for the wives etc!!!

That said, the 280 twincam is a great engine, but i just liked the 300 better (although getting the dizzy cap off was always a challenge!!!!!

Maxwell Smart
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Re: 280 or 300??

w463 vs w460 is generally quite personal. But a w463 is full time four wheel drive which is nice. You can't engage 4 wheel drive on the 460 on pavement. Something to consider.

w463 also has a much smoother and quieter ride. I can drive 12 hours easily in mine and get out feeling refreshed. I feel rattled after 1 hour in a w460... If a wife is involved then this will be important....

of course a w460 is simpler especially if you want to work on it yourself. Hus will tell you to get a w460 but really he is hankering after a w463 though he won't admit it.

fixwin38
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Re: 280 or 300??

Hi welcome to GWOA..... the German websites selling Gwagen offer such a variety of type and price you will be spoilt for choice. try surfing them and if one takes your fancy there is enough knowledge and awareness amongst the GWOA members to offer advice as to the problem areas you should look for before parting with your money.....best of luck

fixwin38
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Re: 280 or 300??

Hi try autoscout de for a start......

zeecontainer
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Re: 280 or 300??

I've been a faithfull visitor of both autoscout24 and mobile, but even in Germany there aren't that many 25 yrs and over 280GELs or 230GELs around! Most are from around 1985/86. When they're younger than 25 yrs there's a kind of import tax (back payment of luxury sales tax, don't you love the ways they find to tax you over and over!).

How is the 230E motor in the G? Is it powerfull enough? How does it stand up to the 280?

tclynes
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Re: 280 or 300??

i used to have a 230ge swb, i found it fine, but then its not really a car that you chase speed in like the new amg's etc. a few guys on here drove my one so will also have their views as well as with their own. what type of driving will you be doing most of the time?

Tom

zeecontainer
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Re: 280 or 300??

It will always be driven as a second car, mostly for vacations with some light to moderate off road use (among lots of highway miles). Perhaps a total of 4-5000 kms per year max. And I intend to join a 4x4 club and participate on some off road weekends.
There is a wife and kids (3) but they don't care about luxury or the lack thereof. We do need enough space so a SWB is out.

mortinson
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Re: 280 or 300??

Hi Zee, I have owned a W460 300GD and a W463 G300D and the only thing I can say is that, after driving the former you drive the latter and you think that you have been driving a tractor before that! Don't get me wrong, off-road a W460 is every bit as good as a W463 but on the road the permanent 4wd and the total lack of vibrations make it a totally different proposal...

So my vote goes to a 300GE if you can live with the enormous tax!

tclynes
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Re: 280 or 300??

with the highway miles go 463 any day!

hus55
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Re: 280 or 300??

most important question here is budget :(

maxwell is pushing me......i might just turn up on his door step in a

G320 CDI LONG if he carries on :!: :!: :lol:

now,a diesel 460 is a tractor and if you drive above 60 kmh take some medication with you!

my 230GE cab was underpowered and thirsty so i fitted a w124 300D and in comparison to my cousins recently brought 88 model 300GDS my G is so smooth and quiet it sits right inbetween the comfort of a 460-463( ultimately not as smooth as 463,but much more refined than a 460 diesel) plus it cruises very well at 100 kmh....seriously.

now the 280GE is far superior to the 300GD full stop :!: economy is not too far apart,so fuel prices are the important factor. refinement in my 280 GEL-AUTO in town is as GOOD as a 463 :!: :!: MY G IS AS QUIET AS MAXWELL'S IN TOWN AND MINE DONT RATTLE OR SQUEAK LIKE HIS :lol:

in saying all this i recently drove a good friends 300 GEL and i loved it :!: :!:

he paid a very reasonable price for it and i would have brought it if i had the option when buying my 280 GEL :roll: (I WISH HIM HAPPY MOTORING). :lol:

so check all aspects and where and how you will use it,plus do you have good mechanics that are cheap when something goes wrong :shock: in your area :?:

good luck G fan :D

Maxwell Smart
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Re: 280 or 300??

hus55 wrote:
MY G IS AS QUIET AS MAXWELL'S IN TOWN AND MINE DONT RATTLE OR SQUEAK LIKE HIS :lol:

Hus - that is called leather... say it slowly leeaaathhheeerrr. Its what they cover the seats in newer 463s with...

and frankly quiet in London is irrelevant as you can't hear anything over the traffic. now as quiet as mine in the countryside or on the motorway? i think not.

as for the RHD G320 - its not just me, we're all waiting for you....

hus55
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Re: 280 or 300??

maxwell keep your shirt on mate :!:

one thing people that own big mercs never do is connolise their hide :!: (i mean the car seats not their own..... :P ) try that, or get it done profesionally my friend and you will thank me :wink:

as for the town and field mouse issue, at 40 mph in the counrty lanes and in town my G IS SMOOTH AND QUIET....go above that in the lanes and i would say you are a lunatic driver :shock: :) on the motorway however i would be cruising at 56 mph and enjoying the sceneryin the lorry lane :wink: now lets be honest the 460 isnt a cruiser :!: :!:

as for the 463- 460 issue both are unique to themselves.463 is a better option in terms of refinement etc...but a cheap 463 can end up a can of worms :( if you aint lucky). plus finding a 460 as refined as mine is (COMPARED TO) 460's aint gonna be easy or cheap to find either buddy :wink:

just to brag and bore a bit more...i put my 280 in for a automatic tranny service and adjustment etc.two hours later the G turned up and i was told by the engineer that owns the business my autobox runs as new as does the rest of the vehicle :wink: he was absolutely AMAZED :!: :!:

so,i will finalise by saying " dont rush with whatever you end up buying my friend" and make sure you connolise the seats if they are leather :D

Maxwell Smart
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Re: 280 or 300??

hus i'm just ribbing you...

hus55
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Re: 280 or 300??

as long as it aint pork mate :P its against my religion.

hope to catch up with you soon buddy and honestly i was serious about the connolly hide nourisher.

Maxwell Smart
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Re: 280 or 300??

hus55 wrote:

hope to catch up with you soon buddy and honestly i was serious about the connolly hide nourisher.

The only problem being I spend far too much money anytime I set foot in the store... so I am avoiding it for the time being.

shakir
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Re: 280 or 300??

Phew, what a debate. :!:
If you need a vehicle to be used in a farm , off road sort of enviroment
a 460 diesel is a good choice. Tough, reliable, easy maintenance, low down torque,etc. I will recyle cooking oil and use in a vehicle like this. It will be ideal. :idea:
But for city usage, cruising, refinement, power a 460 280 will be very good, even better with a LPG conversion. A 280 will benefit greatly from A seat swap to Recaros, Koni shocks and Eibach springs. In this way a 280 can be upgraded from factory spec to a better spec ( I am still upgrading my one, which is an absolute pleasure for me). As anyone knows engines are bomb proof as long as you do your bit. So 280 G wagens are not tractors and they dont rattle and they are quiet comfy as well, unless you were driving completely knackered ones :x
I went to Cyprus and back 2 times consecutively and I can do it anytime again. You are more involved in driving a 280 I quess.
You should not be comparing a 460 with a 463. They are different and each has its merits.
460 has this no nonse build guality and strengh. It is evident everywhere
of the vehicle that it means business.
463-300 G. More powerfull, quiter engine (hyraulic tappets), ABS,standart seats (not bad-recaros better), Permanent 4x4. Steering easier (more power) completely different interior (I cannot say it is better). Less involved driving etc. Lots to go wrong and wont be cheap to repair. very good driver, very good for cruising , lpg conversion is a must again if you dont have shares in a petrol company. I think better to get one of each 8)

Maxwell Smart
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Re: 280 or 300??

shakir wrote:
I think better to get one of each 8)

Yup in an ideal world I'd have one of each and then a few others thrown in for fun....

shakir
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Re: 280 or 300??

That is why I keep buying the matcbox ones!

martinus
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Re: 280 or 300??

Compared to my former 1999 Defender 90 TD5, my GE280 automatic is very very very silent.
An automatic gearbox is what you need in city traffic.
I drove a 280 long and now have a 280 short both very quick and steerable.

When fuel economy is important, get a 25year old and do LPG.
20-ltr per 100-km is what you get
My first trip, to enthousiastic did 35-ltr per 100-km = 1:3