Older diesel G-wagen ownership - pros and cons?
Hello to all. I don't yet own a G-wagen but am seriously contemplating the purchase of an older model (300GD?) in good condition. I have owned a MB 240D sedan for several years and have the utmost respect for MB engineering in the 70's and 80's. I have also owned a few 4x4's (Toyota Land Cruiser, Series Land Rover and Land Rover 110), and would like to acquire one again, for camping, overall use, and long road trips. The TLC was too rust-prone, and the LR's were too spartan for my taste. I figured: why not combine my love of the MB diesel vehicles with a fine diesel G-wagen from the mid-late 80's?
I am glad to have found this community, as the Buying Advice section of the forums are particularly useful to me at this time.
I recently met someone who refurbishes older G-wagens and installs the turbo 5 cylinder engine (OM617) into them, creating what I feel is an optimal configuration, from a fuel efficiency and reliability aspect. I may wait until he gets a suitable specimen to sell, unless something else comes on the market where I live (in Canada).
Other than the obvious advantages (to me anyway) of being more affordable, having a simpler design (fewer electronics and no computers), and fitting one of the best engines MB ever made (617), are there other pros to buying an older G-wagen?
What about some cons, besides probable rust spots, wear and tear, more spartan interior?
Appreciate your insights! Cheers. :D
Hello rstl99,
I have been looking at a lot of older Gs (1983 - 91) recently in my search for one.The main problems I have encountered have been that the indicated mileage is no guide to true mileage and only by checking the history ( if there is any ) can one ascertain the real mileage and likely state of the mechanics.Rust on the rear quarters and door is inevitable - bottom of door pillars and underneath on the front body box section likely with 460 series but the 463s fair much better.The brake and fuel pipes go on top of the chassis rails and need careful inspection for rot.In Canada it may not be such a problem? Watch for wet carpets in footwells!All diesel ones I have seen have had good engines and mechanics so I agree that the engineering quailty there is first class. I have found that reading through the forum section on buying advice and then through the technical sections will provide endles fun and worrying knowledge ! Other members are really helpful on specific questions.Two points I have not seen in the sections but have experienced myself on 460 models :- The rear halfshaft seals can leak oil into the brake drums - especially if the car has been standing and watch out for the rubber fuel hose from filler to tank.
Hope this helps .
Grummitt
I see your other post got the Technical replies. I was looking for a 4x4 for months looked at Jap stuff...lots of oil leaks. Did like the Otis Jeep, but as soon as I climbed under a 24yr old 300GD and saw no oil leaks that was the one for me! Its slow, 60mph and you're thinking you're in third! But off road you can tell what it is about..low end grunt! Another thing is space my SWB has tons compaired to a Landrover, SWB Shogun etc and it is a true 5 seater. It is rare enough to attrach attention and offers when I'm out and about so proving it is a good investment.
Good luck in your search
Hi Grummit and thanks for your thoughts.
About the mileage, I gather that the odometer only has 5 digits which indeed makes true mileage a challenge to determine with certainty on a 20 year old vehicle.
Thanks for pointing out likely rust spots. Don't worry: we get more than our share of chassis and body rust in Canada! Especially in the East where I live, where road salt is applied liberally in the winter. In Western Canada, road salt is used much less so vehicles don't suffer from as much rust after several winters.
My 240D sedan originally came from Arizona and has virtually no rust on it at all, even though it has over 200,000 miles and is 25 years old. So hopefully I will find a G-wagen that originally spent most of its life in Southern US...
Indeed, I'm finding plenty of interesting things to read about in the various forums (worrying knowledge as you put it!).
I seem to detect that some owners spend a LOT of money upgrading their G's (cosmetically, but in other ways too), and then perhaps have difficulties in recovering their investment when they decide to sell. I'd rather get one that is fairly stock, and not have to invest money too liberally on those kind of things (ie. trying to make an older G look like one of the newer ones).
Anyway, proves to be an interesting search for the "right one". Patience and perseverance are indeed useful virtues in such endeavours...
Thanks again, cheers.
Hi Grendle, and thanks for your thoughts.
Indeed, the other response to my similar post in Buying Advice forum was very helpful.
As I mentioned in the other thread, I met a guy who upgrades 300GD's by putting in the OM617A engine mated to automatic transmission. That would be ideal for me, since the majority of my usage would be on roads (paved or gravel).
I figured I would look for a LWB because I was used to the size in my Land Cruiser wagon (BJ60) and in the 110 I briefly owned. But sounds from what you said that the SWB G has a fair amount of room. So I may have a look at one if I can find one closeby. I imagine the LWB would have a more comfortable ride on the open road, due to the longer wheelbase?
Here in Canada, we have a 15 year importation rule (unlike the US which are restricted to 25 years or older) and a lot of importers are bringing in nice 15-20 year old Japanese LandCruisers (turbo diesel, absolutely no rust, low mileage, luxury featured) for about the same price that it would cost me to buy a nice OM617A equipped 80's G-wagen in good shape. Problem with those Japanese Land Cruisers is that they are right-hand-drive (I realize that's not an issue for you guys in the UK). Most guys I talk to who have bought them say it's not an issue, but I would prefer getting a LHD vehicle, and given my respect and appreciation for the MB marque, a G-wagen may be preferable.
About attracting attention, I suppose it's one of the things I would potentially see as a drawback in owning a G-wagen: I don't necessarily wish to be noticed, and G-wagens are also seen by many around here as a yuppie-luxury-grocery-getter extravagant purchase which gets very poor fuel economy etc. (a bit like the Hummer I suppose). I suppose that's one reason I would prefer finding one that's rather simple and stock, and I'd probably put a sign on it that says: "I can get 30MPG on bio-diesel!" :lol:
Well, the search will be an interesting one. Thanks again, and cheers.
As long as they have been serviced regularly and often - older diesels are usually bomb proof.
"About attracting attention, I suppose it's one of the things I would potentially see as a drawback in owning a G-wagen"
The attentions usualy from Landy owners looking for something that doesn't rust or need a winch! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Ride quality is interesting my SWB has LWB springs on the back because the previous owner did a lot of towing, the Kids realised why the roof is so high when we "yumped" a speed hump! :lol: :lol:
Hi Guys,
I'm new to all this and would appreciate some advice. I am after a g-wagen to carry passengers off-road in Greece. A dealer has a Greek LHD turbo automatic 461 LWB (9 seats), 65,000 km on the clock. The dealers going to totally re kit it out, tyres, upholstery, re spray and give a warranty. He's asking 25,000 euros. Can someone advise me on a fair price or at least a guideline and/or somewhere I can reference prices. I'm a female expat and wouldn't want either points exploited!
It sounds as though it has had a hard life if at that low mileage it needs all the work doing to it. If it isa genuine 461 turbo it was made no later than 96? or there abouts.
These Gs are quite rare and very sought after. Some have had hard lives due to there original purchase usage, ie being used.
Prices vary according to condition but 25k euros isn't that far from the mark for a good one.
However, depending on your local taxes you might be able to get something in Germany and import it yourself. If local taxes or rules prevent that then the price is not comparible to UK or Germany.
Lets see a few pics before you buy. Look around the site and you will see plenty of advise around
Hi all,
Still pondering G-wagen ownership. Since the last messages I posted here, I bought and read the Brooklands collection of articles and reviews on the g-wagens (Gold Portfolio) so am more educated about their strengths and weaknesses. Interestingly, most of the comparative reviews of the G-wagen versus the Range Rover gave the nod to the RR as the better overall vehicle (maybe not so surprising, given that most of the review articles were in the UK press :-). All for valid reasons, however. However, the reality now is that a late 80's RR is worth next to nothing on the used car market, whereas a g-wagen from that era, in good condition, still goes for a fair sum. So I suppose that Time has proven the g-wagen the more resilient vehicle.
I'm still pondering g-wagen ownership. I own an early 80's MB 240D sedan and love the "old world" engineering and the cast iron diesel engine etc. I figure I will be getting much of the same with the G. However, I'm somewhat concerned about my plans for lengthy road travels in North-America, and finding myself unable to get service should I suffer a mechanical breakdown in remote areas. A North-American vehicle would make more sense in a way, but it wouldn't be like driving a G!! I'm also unsure about the G as a "daily driver" vehicle, mostly city (where I live), and also the possibility of the MB star attracting thieves (who may confuse my older 80's model with the more refined and expensive current models...). Decisions, decisions...
Anyway, I'm waiting for a good specimen, priced right. Supply and demand work against me, but I'm keeping my eyes open.
Cheers!
Hi all,
Still pondering G-wagen ownership. Since the last messages I posted here, I bought and read the Brooklands collection of articles and reviews on the g-wagens (Gold Portfolio) so am more educated about their strengths and weaknesses. Interestingly, most of the comparative reviews of the G-wagen versus the Range Rover gave the nod to the RR as the better overall vehicle (maybe not so surprising, given that most of the review articles were in the UK press :-). All for valid reasons, however. However, the reality now is that a late 80's RR is worth next to nothing on the used car market, whereas a g-wagen from that era, in good condition, still goes for a fair sum. So I suppose that Time has proven the g-wagen the more resilient vehicle.
There you go... written by the British press. I have contemporary comparative test reports of the G and the Range Rover in Spanish, British, French and German magazines and the only ones which gave the RR as the winner were the British snobs. How wrong they were! If you want an early 1980 RR the vendor would probably pay you so that you take it from his hands (that is assuming that it still exists in a driveable condition :lol: ), wheras a contemporary GWagen will still be worth a couple of thousand pounds at least.
I'm still pondering g-wagen ownership. I own an early 80's MB 240D sedan and love the "old world" engineering and the cast iron diesel engine etc. I figure I will be getting much of the same with the G. However, I'm somewhat concerned about my plans for lengthy road travels in North-America, and finding myself unable to get service should I suffer a mechanical breakdown in remote areas. A North-American vehicle would make more sense in a way, but it wouldn't be like driving a G!! I'm also unsure about the G as a "daily driver" vehicle, mostly city (where I live), and also the possibility of the MB star attracting thieves (who may confuse my older 80's model with the more refined and expensive current models...). Decisions, decisions...
The kind of mechanicals liable to breakdown (engine) are similar to those fitted to Mercedes saloons so I don't think that that could be an issue in Canada. As for city driving, I very much enjoy driving my G in the city where you perticularly enjoy the commanding driving position. As for the thieves, as soon as they peep inside and they see no leather upholstery but more likely the interior of a utility van, I don't think they will try to rob you!
Cheers
Buenos dias, Mortinson!
Actually, there were also reviews from Australia in that Brooklands book, so it wasn't just the British press flaunting the relative merits of the Range Rover vs. the G-wagen. They gave the advantage to the RR principally for reasons of on-road comfort and performance, as well as more comfortable and featured interior (versus the more spartan interior of the early G's). They noted the G was underpowered (no argument there I imagine) compared to the V8 in the RR. Plus the styling of the RR was more "attractive" than the more rudimentary styling of the G. Something like that.
Anyway, biased or not, that seemed to be the view back then, but as we discussed, Time has proven otherwise. Here in Canada, a mid-80s RR sells for anywhere between $3-7,000 Cdn, whereas a mid-80's G sells for $10-20,000 Cdn. Supply and demand, perhaps. I think the heavy maintenance requirements on the RR, which likely becomes more expensive with each passing year, has made it less and less attractive compared to the G. Plus, supply and demand dictates that there are fewer G's on the market so their value goes up.
Anyway, it was interesting to read all those articles.
If some of the articles you mention are available on the internet, I would like to have the links so I can look at them too.
Rather than the RR (or any Land-Rover product - I owned a 110 for a couple of years and the mechanical components of it compared to a G are not very impressive, very rudimentary), I would be more inclined to consider a nice Land-Cruiser specimen, if I can't find a suitable G. I have a lot of respect for the diesel engines in the TLCs. In Canada, some import them from Japan (low mileage, no rust) but they are all RHD, which is the "wrong" side in Canada (though some people don't seem to have problems with that, I would prefer a LHD vehicle myself!).
Anyway, it's interesting and fun to ponder on what the most suitable vehicle would be for me. One advantage of the Land-Cruiser is that there are more of them around, and parts are likely less of an issue to get than G's, around where I live. Both I feel are probably great trucks, though there can only be one Mercedes!
Cheers,
--Robert
Forgot to address a couple of your points Mortinson:
Indeed, the higher driving position would be advantageous in city driving, to see what others are doing!
I would think that a manual transmission model would not be the most suitable for busy city traffic, but an automatic would be fine.
Indeed, a look inside at the more spartan interior of the older G's should detract thieves. I was concerned that they might confuse the older model with the new ones, and think that they were really stealing a $100,000 car! I was also concerned that because of this, perhaps insurance rates would be very high on them.
As you said, the engine is quite similar to the sedan/saloon car (W123) so some of the consumable parts would be common. I was more thinking about having problems with prop shafts, u-joints, or other axle components while out on the road. I suppose that leaving on a trip with a vehicle in good mechanical condition would alleviate risk of breakdown of that sort, especially if one doesn't envision some rock-crawling or heaving trail usage (which is the case for me).
Thanks again.
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Hi all.
Don't want to cross-post but I posted a message with the above subject in the Buying Advice forum, so would welcome any of you diesel G-wagen folks to give me your thoughts there.
THank you, and all the best!