Another day another problem.......cylinder head gasket now!
got my exhaust manifold gasket changed and its much better now, but just checking the oil found small white foam deposits on the filler cap. she still drives ok but water has gone done over a couple of weeks! im guessing this is the head gasket? anybody know how easy this is to change? anybody up north any experience in this procedure? im begining to reach the end of my "g" tethter. Is it still ok to drive?
Cheers Simon
DON'T PANIC !!!!! sludge in oil filler cap can result from short runs that limit the engine heating up properly ..drive the G (with water in it) until the water temp guage reads normal..take a cloth and a glove place the cloth over the radiator cap with engine stopped and turn cap very slowly until you can remove it.if there was no hiss of pressure during this action then the chances are you have a leak in the water system... Hoses. radiator. heater. etc check the plumbing. cylinder head gasket failure will manifest itself by ....lots of steam from the exhaust tail pipe even when engine is hot....bubbles in the radiator header tank immediately after start up....grey coloured engine oil...back pressure in the radiator when hot with cap on forcing water out of the overflow pipe. rough starting when cold indicating one or more sparkplugs are wet... do these checks systematically and log the observations rgds and seasons greetings
Calm yourself, its only a 4 cylinder head gasket. To cheer you up and mininise your worries, look in body section about legs :wink:
A bit of "mayonnaise" could be due to blocked crank breather. Check / clean this b4 panicking. It’s easy to jump straight to the worst case scenario and miss the simple / obvious stuff, as per previous replies, don’t panic!!
An MOT test centre can use their gas analyser to check for combustion gases in the water tank as a final check for head gasket problems.
Russ
Taking adavntage of the obvious knowledge in this forum...
My 1987 Seat Marbella with just pampered 47,400 miles on the clock has some foam on the oil filler cap as of late. Engine oil seems clean and honey coloured. No consumption of cooling fluid whatsoever, it is right at the max mark of the expansion tank. No overheating whatsoever. Perfect morning starts even in this weather -sleeps in garage, though. Drives like a dream and does 44 mpg on unleaded petrol (with lead additive) despite the obviously stressed engine of motorway traffic, which is what I have between myself and the city of Madrid. I shall ckeck all the other symptoms but I think that it's suffering from none of those at the moment. What do you guys think?
Thanks
Mortinson, show us a picture of the engine bay. Don't think you have anything to worry about. With a good picture overviewing the engine bay from the top, we may be able to pinpoint the source of the foam.
Mercfan, as ever, many thanks for sharing your expertise, here are some pictures. Unfortunately, due to the flashlight, the froth on the filler cap cannot be seen properly but there was some there and that after a 6 km journey.
Please let me have your thoughts.
A few more
Ok, Mortinson, I hoped and trusted for detailed pictures and as usual you have done excellent!
I have seen what I needed to see and can confirm my initial suspicions. You see, your aircleaner intake is right at the front of the car and relatively short, so moist air and no doubt some fine water droplets will find their way down this relatively short tract. Then, the engine breather hose also has a very short length and connects to the aircleaner close to the intake. On top of this, this breather hose connects to the engine right by the oil filler cap, so you can see how easy it would be for some moisture to get to the filler cap and mix with the oil there to form the froth.
Also, the oil filler cap is the highest point of the engine and so any condensation droplets will collect there.
You can do some testing. Just wipe the filler cap clean, disconnect the breather hose at both ends and remove it. It may have some sludge/foam in itself as well. Blank both the aircleaner fitting and valve cover fitting with a sock or similar and secure. Then drive the car for a few miles, allowing it to get up to temperature and check the filler cap again. My guess is that it would be clear. If not, but less, there is probably some water(very little) in the engine which should evaporate as the oil heats up to beyond the boiling point of water. To get rid of this completely, park the car at home after a long drive so that the oil gets chance to heat up properly. Then remove the filler cap and let the engine idle for a while like this. This way the water vapour will get chance to be vented out, rather than being "stuck" inside the engine. Another thing to do, is to move the air intake tubing away from the front of the car, pointing simply backward, where it will be less likely to pick up water droplets. This will also make it run smoother quicker in the winter.
Don't think you have anything to worry about(99%). But of course if your findings after above testing show a persistent presence of foam, you will have to investigate further...
Let us know how you get on, as this is no doubt also applicable to some g-wagen models, especially when off-roading.
Will do, many thanks,
Jesus,
A little of topic, sorry.
If that’s a petrol Saab 9-5 in the background I would have thought you would be an expert on engine breather issues
If not you need to be. I had one for a while, absolute hoot in a straight line :lol: :lol: , but they suffer with breather / mayonnaise and oil sludging. Check that it has had the dealer mods. I was that paranoid about mine that I dropped the sump to check for sludge (even Mobil 1 does it Mercfan I’m afraid) as it happens mine was spotless.
Russ
Jesus,
A little of topic, sorry.
If that’s a petrol Saab 9-5 in the background I would have thought you would be an expert on engine breather issues
If not you need to be. I had one for a while, absolute hoot in a straight line :lol: :lol: , but they suffer with breather / mayonnaise and oil sludging. Check that it has had the dealer mods. I was that paranoid about mine that I dropped the sump to check for sludge (even Mobil 1 does it Mercfan I’m afraid) as it happens mine was spotless.
Russ
Yes, it's a 9-5 Estate but not a petrol one. It is the 2.2 TiD, went like a rocketship but still managed 37 mpg doing 87-100 mph all day long. Funnily my three kids hated it understandably though because it competed in their love with the GWagen!
Unfortunately, I have been made redundant so goodbye Saab and welcome back Seat Marbella, not so flashy but going strong after 19 years in the family ownership!
even Mobil 1 does it Mercfan I’m afraid
Think so, yes....
Going to shut up about Mobil1 from now on :(
Funnily my three kids hated it understandably though because it competed in their love with the GWagen!
Unfortunately, I have been made redundant so goodbye Saab and welcome back Seat Marbella, not so flashy but going strong after 19 years in the family ownership!
Sorry to hear that and now completely of topic but I will soon be working for a Spanish company, Iberdrola, how long for who knows!?
No worries mercfan, I am a firm believer in high quality oil and the Saab problem was down to engine design rather than oil. Mobil 1 helped but didn't cure it. BTW I've been driven in a BMW that had done a certified 1,000,000 miles on mobil 1. Original engine, rest of it a complete shed though!
Russ
Hi enjoy your trip and monitor water temp guage (around 12 o'clockmgive or take a pointer width) and the radiator water level..only fill up to the half round metal marker in the radiator filler neck.when you arrive let the engine cool and remove the radiator cap.... water should be at that mark or just below ..if you can see the end of the radiator tubes and no water look for leaks .. squeeze the top hose and listen to the water gurgle round the heater hoses.... replenish before the return journey... regarding the sludge on the oil filler cap. this should have disappeared as a result of the long run engine heat and oil wash in the rocker cover.mixing engine oils especially mineral with synthetic gives you aeration/bubbles /froth which can only be removed with a run. flush. and replenish with a good quality oil.. rgds
Simon,
Something pretty easy / obvious that people forget to check is the radiator cap.
If the seal is perished or the spring weak it will use water. Mayo maybe completely unrelated to the water loss.
Fingers crossed :)
Russ
hi russ got a brand new merc one on, its a 100c one its what they said should be fitted!!?
right returned from my trip 300 miles completed, a little water has been consumed probably about 1cm down from the marker in the radiator. it only seems to do it at low speed when i get going after about 5 mins it seems to stop, checked oil filler no mayo looking stuff, also the oil looks nice and clear. anybody any more ideas?
cheers simon
Hi I am a little baffled !! it does what at low speed? if you are looking into the radiator with the engine running. when you rev the engine the waterpump will circulate the water through the header tank causing the water to rise...when you slow the engine down the water will subside...is there anti freeze fluid in the system??? you must check all the hoses for leaks with the system hot and pressurised...if no pressure builds in the header tank then you have a leak somewhere. see my previous post for checking the pressure...don't scald your hand......
it seems to only give out a visible exhaust gas at low speed, system does get pressurised as cap hissés when you take it off. there is about 30-35% antifreeze in it. will check for rise and fall of water level when hot and revved tomorrow when its light again!
simon
Your profile shows you have a 463 GLD with turbo, yet your enquiry describes a 460 layout of the coolant system. I would suggest pressure testing the coolant system initially and locate any leaks whislt under pressure or watching the pressure build-up is doing, if you are lossing it, obviousily there is a leak, consequently if the pressure is maintainted there is no leak. But that need not be the end of that.
Not all us have access to such equipment, therefore, alterentive action could be working from a cold engine, top-up the radiator to the metal tag just below the bell-shape, should you over-fill, do not worry the level will corrrect its self by way of overflowing excess amounts, just do not panic if you observe a small pool of water under the radiator.
Use your vehicle to do your shopping or what ever, when it is reaches normal operating temperature, gauge reading around 85 degrees centigrade. Check the coolant system for leaks. Train your eye around the whole circuit checking for leaks, carefully pressing your pipe at the top radiator hose to assist in locaing any self-sealing leaks.
Check the base of the radiator and radiator cores, using a bright beamed torch would be a great advantage, one of these 'Led' bulbs work fantasticaly. DO NOT undo your pressure cap with the engine HOT! Recheck your coolant from a COLD engine on daily bases initially, should you still loose coolant and the coolant occurs more on short journeys then, you need to turn you attentions to the water pump. These can be self-sealing, momentarily leaking during engine warm-up and cool-down, any period outside that the pump does not leak. Other clues to look out for are dried water stains trails near and around any leaking hose joint switch etc.. Check the colour and texture of the Auto. G/box oil, assuming just that. I have seen cases were coolant leaks into the G/box. Should you have a Head gasket leaking, depending upon the gasket breach, your vehicle will be difficult to start first thing in the Mornings and evenings. You would also see a hughe cloud of steam from the exhaust. Do not confuse the with oil burn the conditions can be similar. But oil burn would not develop suddenly. Checking the engine compartment is not the end all, you ought th check inside the cab the check for leaks at the heater matrix, is there water at the footwells? Funny smell of antifreeze? Windscreen misting up internally? These are the signs to look out for.
Mouse in the radiator on short runs is not worth the worry, that is quite normal in for winter conditions.
oh happy days, copious amounts of white smoke and a rapidly falling water level, im guessing its the head gasket!
simon
:cry:
Yes, you are.
To make doubly sure, are you certain it is smoke and not steam?
Is the car difficult to start?
Does the smoke/ steam smell of antifreeze if you have any in the coolant or is an oily smell?
Does the heater get warm or not heat transfer is taking place?
Does the engine misfire a little? Or not run so smoothly.
But on the whole you do have a head gasket gone.
right i bit the bullet and took it to a garage, they shoved a probe in the radiator. it was showing a small amount of exhaust gas but could not confirm head gasket was shot. they looked at oil and water and said there was no contamination in either. they said when i restart it its probably condensation thats formed being evaporated off!
car starts first time even after being stood for a few days
the emissions dont smell of anything, and if u put you hand in the way theres little moisture/water
heater gets warm, car maintains usual temprature while running.
the garage even said she was running sweet as a nut, no loss of power!
so bugger knows!
simon
Certainly at this time of year mine throws out plenty of white vapour, especially when it's first started. Dependant upon the atmospheric conditions it will even do this when fully warm. It's not head gasket (never had to top mine up), so hopefully stop worring and enjoy
PS put a question for you in Transmission and Drivetrain
Russ
oh happy days, copious amounts of white smoke and a rapidly falling water level, im guessing its the head gasket!
simon
Simon, it can be difficult to diagnose remote faults, but when you describe 'rapadily falling water', obvious question is How much of a loss? From your previous comments after a 300 mile journey a few millimeters is nothing.
In cold weather a large plume of smoke or steam IS normal, water residue is also normal by-product of the combustion process.
The fact a blown head gasket need not necesssarily produce contamination in the oil.
If the car starts fine and has no misfire or rough runing then you have nothing to worry about. About your water loss, have you pressure tested the cooling system?
One other clue of a blown head gasket will pressurise the cooling system,
after a few miles driving and with the coolant temperature at about normal,
carefully squeeze the top radiator hose, if it is pressed the hose will not compress, on the contarary, it will be blown up a little or swollen.
DO NOT open the radiator cap on a hot engine, wait till it cools down. But with that you get overheating of the engine. You say that is fine. Then, I would suggest keep track of your coolant level frequently, topping up as necessary. Use your car as normally, if the head gasket is gone or is going, the water loss and overheating will become very apparent.
Concern your self only when you need to start filling water after doing short journeys.
I am not advocating not check but should have any concerns give me a call. In that way I can get direct feed back from you. If you want to call, do so, at the weekends.
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ok back on topic, after being stood for 2 days i decided to remove the plugs to see if they where wet or damp. all four where dry as a bone and a light grey colour which as far as i know is the correct colour? so could be a false alarm, doing 300 mile in it tomorrow so will find out then i guess!!!
simon