my first g outing offroad!!!!!.....................
right, took my g out off road today for the first time just want to check something. I came to a quite steep loose rocky descent so i put her in 4wd low and left her in first and just steered and used the brake (no clutch) and let her crawl down, is that the correct way?
Cheers Simon
I'm no expert, but sounds alright if theres good traction, if limited traction be very carefull with the brake, general advice is to keep of the brake.
General advice is to not use the brakes but if you’re careful it’s OK. (I have to with an auto)
If it starts to slide immediately stop braking.
If it continues to slide (wheels turning slower than actual speed) you will have to apply slight throttle. Not the most natural of things to do!
deffo stay off brakes - while your on the clutch/brakes your not fully in control (if that makes sense)although engine breaking is bit of a bitch in an auto!! another interesting slant for steep decents with no traction , put it in reverse and go down! aussies have been doing it for years and it works for them! ( and me on two occassions) only thing you have to watch out for is if the back end starts going round is remembering to throw it into drive before you boot it!! also remember the bigger you go with tyres , the more it will affect your low box gearing - 36" fedimas made my low 1st more like low 3rd.
you can use the hand brake to assist with braking on the rear, that way the front wont brake away.
you can use the hand brake to assist with braking
I've seen that tactic tried on a LR......interesting results :D
you can use the hand brake to assist with braking on the rear, that way the front wont brake away.
handbraking on a steep and loose decent? that i would love to see!
Yeah, but carefull use of the handbrake with the lockers on is a different thing.
handbrake + lockers? i love you crazy guys!! so lockerS ( plural) buggers up your ability to steer properly due to car trying to continue in a straight line , any use of brakes/clutch on acent/decent is un advisable but your telling me you would use both lockers and a handbrake ? if the terrain is bad enough to warrant both lockers why lose the benefit(momentum/traction) by braking and potentially losing any steering that you have ? also same as previous-if its a steep climb bad enough to warrant both , last thing you would wanna do is start breaking . although i consider myself more than proficient off road driver ,but from from expert i am yet to find anyone who would recommend the use of a handbrake offroad - either on an accent or decent , especially with both lockers engaged!cant wait til next offroad day when you guys can show me !!
:D Gentleman lets face it offroad driving is a practical skill when the basic theory has be passed on by someone more experenced then is is time to go to some fun days and practice in slow time the nessasary skills on different terrain , ie side slops , :( failed hill starts . :shock: .
Lets face it most people have started driving offroad in other vehicles that act diffently than a G :D ,
the gearing is a lot diffrent than most offroaders , then theres difflocks that are a fantastic aid off road .
practice and knowlege build confidence but over confidence can end in tears :wink: .
practice, practice, practice . :D
Twodogs
:D a lot of the theory can be read on the link below ,
The lock/handbrake combination sounds interesting. I'll go and try it today, don't worry Russ I won't do it in the red one, I'll use the 230.
I'll post the results after I've done the test.
Sorry everyone, I could not find anywhere steep/bad enough to loose traction in 4WD. We’ll have to wait for some heavy rain before I can do the difflock & handbrake test.
Watch this space.
I tried the handbrake on decend today and almost rolled my car!!! I tried it the first time without my locks on. Thats where the problem came in, whent sliding, turned broadside and it was to slippery to get out of it. Tried everything, geared down and accelerated, but still hit a hedge. no serious damage, but no you all know. LEAVE THE BLOODY HANDBRAKE ALONE WILE DRIVING!!!! I tried it again a few times after the incident and found that it does help a bit if the locks are on, but not a lot. the chance of pulling the handbrake out of habbit without locks engaged is to big.
My honest advise is leave the handbrake, use very little footbrake, but not on slippery decends. I realy got close to roling my car today, and aded a lot of scraches to it.
whent sliding, turned broadside and it was to slippery to get out of it.
Christo,
That just about matches the result I refered to above when someone I know paniced and tried it in a LR. Actually pretty funny as a spectator, shame you didn't sell tickets :D
I still need to tell Henrietha about all the scratches on her car. It is on the passenger side, so she don't know yet.
The whole issue with leaving the brakes alone has actually more to do with selecting a lower gear rather than having to brake or slow down.
The correct way is to start a steep decent at as slow a speed as possible, i.e. 1st low ratio engine at idle and clutch out. Let it roll forward on idle to start the decent at this speed. If the gradient then speeds up the engine, it is quite OK to brake GENTLY. As on a wet or icy road, maximum brake force is achieved by maximum brake force applied to the point just BEFORE wheels start slipping. The only exception being deep gravel or sand where locking the wheels actually increases braking effect. Off-roading is all to do with knowing your vehicle, becoming one with it, instinctively knowing when the wheels are starting to spin and when they are starting to slip on the way down. And knowing what your vehicle is capable of and what not.
As for the handbrake, the only time I have heard that being used whilst driving is to do handbrake turns. Saying that, if someone is happy using it for descending a slope and is used to the feel of it and how to apply the method, then that is just fine. Everybody else, tread carefully when trying something unconventional or indeed anything you have not done before.
The problem was Werner that when I saw this stupid handbrake trick doesn't work and I released it(quick) the back presure from the engine was to much/the decent was to slippery, so the wheels stayed locked. By the time I through it in D and exelerated the car was already broadside. Russ is right, I should have sold tickets. Maybe next time I try someones theories, how does £10 a ticket sound.
This type of decend would only be 100% safe with (a) winch (b) another vehicle to lower you (c) Someone with lots of experience in the right car fitted with the right tyres(I hope thats me)
Ok, I have used my handbrake for years decending hills in my old 230. However I didnt just pull it up full stretch and leave it there!!!!!, or the rear will lock up. With an auto you can't help run on, especially with a petrol. You hold it up an apply pressure accordingly and you can feel when to release and apply. But it does depend on the terrain and how steep the slope is. If its wet grass, forget it you will need snow spikes to stop you on that. And from your post it was to slippy for someone as fresh as yourself
Off roading comes with experience and training. If its your first outing and your not sure then get some training. Ronnie dales off roading experience in the scottish borders taught us this trick many years ago. And it worked for me, everytime, but if you get into difficulty you should now how to get out of it.
However the kind of slopes I attack now requires a winch.
Sorry everyone, I could not find anywhere steep/bad enough to loose traction in 4WD. We’ll have to wait for some heavy rain before I can do the difflock & handbrake test.
Are you serious with the above, G wagens are great but not indestructable, the steepest slope and the wettest weather, accident waiting to happen :shock:
This type of decend would only be 100% safe with (a) winch (b) another vehicle to lower you (c) Someone with lots of experience in the right car fitted with the right tyres(I hope thats me)
Are you saying the slope you tried really required you to be winched down, then no wonder it didn't work, would not expect a novice to go down such a slope without some idea. :shock: Do fancy doing the winter olympics and having a go on the ski jump without a helmet for a laugh. :P
Oh, Argh, Begorra :oops:
As a much younger man I had the unsettling experience of broadsiding & sliding a tractor and silage trailer while attempting to turn across the slope ( & not a very steep slope at all ) in a silage field, wet grass is lethal, perhaps even more so when the ground below it is firm, once traction is lost, physics rules, until the excess momentum is lost, or something solid gets in the way.
Marcus
PS
I have kept my nose out of this one, not having much 4wd "off road" experience but wholehartedly agree with Ian's comments, re braking with discretion, knowing ones vehicle etc, etc.
I think I was regarded as a "lunitic" in the OTC for where I would put or take a landrover, including the ambulance varient.. But I never stuck or broke one, now 4 tonners on the other hand, :oops: But I was not Driving, only directing the driver reversing :cry:
PS
What about some photos of said slope, with sommat in the frame as a reference.
How did this thread turn from someone asking a bit of advice, being given some in good faith, to a bit of a laugh and then in to a p****ng contest? :cry:
Now you know why the GWOA has gone LTD, because advise given can be taken up by someone that does not have the experience, to tackle a situation which could have put him, and others in harms way. Who is responsible ?. One thing I will say about a G Wagen, if you do roll you are in one of the most safest vehicles out there, I know, I rolled mine 3 times down a side slope while competing in an off road challenge 3 years ago. That was experience, taking risk's when I should have attached a winch cable.
A Lesson learnt, (not to take off the front anti roll bar to gain more articulation) and still learning.
steep decents ? next time anyone is up at walters will take you to some of the tips to practice!! :lol:
First of all, my wife loves her little auto 230, more than the CLK cabrio that is supposed to be her car, but it was bought as a toy, I either of us scrap it is ok, their so cheap, we’ll get another.
Secondly I see myself as more than averagely experienced in off road driving, although I accept that there are people with more experience than me. (16 years 4x4 driving)
Thirdly I tested a theory, I said it didn’t work for me and would stay away from it. I feel your brakes are more sensitive and responsive to use if really needed, but if anyone want to use the handbrake technique, be my guest.
I am in the privileged position to have 7000 acres to play on with my car and I do not mind to test it to its limits. I do not wish to compete with anyone on off road driving, if I wanted to do that I would take part in competitions.
Elvis I might take you up on that one, I’ll mail you when I’m down there again.
7000 acres, but that is north wales isnt it
You said it Mr Perfect!
no worries! dont know if you know walters at all but there are loadsa secret places only the locals know!!! :lol:
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thanks for testing the theory!! went out with a friend last night he was in his ex mod 110, came to the top of a climb and he kept getting wheels spinning due to the differentials working so i sat there while he took several attempts to get over this last little climb i engaged the rear diff lock and just gently cruised through the section without any fuss!!! i tried not to poke fun at him but it was too tempting!!