W460 Back Plate
W460 members',
Gentlemen perhaps even, Ladies, I have been drafting for some time now, one of three articles, waiting to go onto the forum; for which, I would like your assistance to contribute some information please, in completing the articles.
Not having worked on G-Wagens for quite a while now, I am not sure of my facts, hence, would like input from you.
Would you please tell me, looking at your own vehicles, where the brake adjuster hole is situated at, on the back plate and for which side this applies? I think, it should be found facing the front of the vehicle for left or right hand sides. To the technically minded, is the hole on the Leading shoe side?
Also, would you confirm, that the W460's, has only one adjuster hole on the back plate? I would be very surprised if some or any one of you say there are two.
I will put this question and one other to Mercedes-Benz, but I expect no reaction from them OR, an answer in some six weeks time.
Your assistance will be naturally appreciated,
Hi Rakesh,
I am just doing all the brakes on one of my W460 s and it is still on the ramp so its easy to confirm that the back plate has only one adjuster hole and it is forward of the adjuster fixing bolt i.e. the leading shoe area. That makes the back plates handed.
Hope this helps,
Regards,
Rowland
Hi Rakesh,
Sorry for late reply, internet connection disappeared but now ok.
I have relined the shoes with linings and rivet kit and the new linings are very thick. I have had to take an angle grinder to the lip on the drums quite severely and a file to the shoes ( to take off edges) to get the drums back on so have not yet had to use the adjusters. I did though take them apart and make sure they were all free and then reassembled with copperseal. The adjuster wheel will only turn one way easily against the lock ( and of course this adjusts both shoes at the same time) You can feel which way to turn it. I think it will be the reverse for the other side but not sure.
Hope this is clear enough
Good luck,
Regards,
Rowland.
Rakesh.
I hope I am not off topic here but the W460 has two different types/brands of rear brakes, Mercedes and Perrot. VIN does not help. Hand brake cables attach differently which will mean different back plates too? Also self adjusters are different and one type (Mercedes?) is not available any more. In my experience the majority are Perrot.
Eddie.
Hello Eddie,
Thank you for your input, it is much appreciated. By the way, I have just looked at your web-site, very impressive, sadly, for the number of years I have been a member, I had not realised of your involvement into G-Wagens.
Cheers,
I have 2 adjuster holes (1988 300GDS) at the bottom. Think I have LH and RH threads so the adjusters both work in the same direction but usually just move them a bit and see if it is closer to the adjuster body or if the drum locks up to adjust them.
I thought it was ATE (presume they bought Periot?) and MB.
Hi There
W460 has AUTOMATIC adjusters. Access hole is just there to let you back off the auto adjuster (and therefore BOTH shoes) if nec to remove drum but will 'adjust-up' automatically once reassembled. No need to adjust-up manually. Apply brakes in forward and reverse to let automatic adjuster do its thing. Hope this helps.
PS
Should have said - If you've disassembled adjusters then before fitting shoes screw the bits that hold the shoes in / out so that they are each an even distance from respective adjuster sprockets and 70mm apart, measured from the base of the indents that hold the shoes.
When using the auto adjuster i found the best way ( mentioned on another post somewhere) was to find a reasonable hill and let the momentum of the vehicle help. Set the nose up hill and then reverse and apply the brakes. Doing this on the flat you need a fair bit of speed, not advisable with half setup brakes. Being on a hill the brakes have enough time to apply and settle so moving the auto adjuster. This was done on a completely rebuilt setup and worked well.
http://www.pointedthree.com/disc/forums/showthread.php?tid=14096&start=21
Shows auto adjusters in photos .. but confirms that there is a manual adjustable version (like I have on an 88 300GDS) and that folk who fail to adjust them get to the situation that the pistons pop out of the cylinders and they lose their rear brakes.
Think they are leading/trailing for normal operation which gives equal performance forward and backwards. Half a thought that they are leading/leading for handbrake operations from memory.. but looking at the photos jogs my memory that they are leading/trailing for handbrake too i.e. it trys to expand at the top for both shoes.. piston is easy but handbrake lever attachs at bottom then levers off back shoe at top and pushing on front shoe via the strut at the top.
To adjust.. I was pushing mine out until they drag and then back one or two flicks of the adjuster. MOT man failed on a dyno once but now does a dynamic (gismo on floor and real stop in street) test as he thinks it is permanent 4x4 (not going to re-educate if it makes it pass!) Now he whinges as I get them to drag a little and hence allow them to wear into adjustment.. but anyway shows that these manual adjustables are tricky to set up compared to more modern drum brakes (brake engineering was my job once 20 years ago...)
Not sure if that helps any?
Looked at my photos and I did not take any .. but could do if you want as it is going nowhere and might help someone.
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Hello Rowland,
Thank you very much for that, just what I needed. Can I ask more, since you have your vehicle on the ramp; if you are going to dismantle the drums and in your endeavors, to note the turns on the adjuster; what it does?
So, for example, if we say, working on the off-side adjuster, turning the front or leading shoe adjuster, clockwise (looking from front to rear of adjuster); I would expect the shoe to adjust to the drum, hence tighten it and doing the same for the rear or trailing shoe adjuster, turning the adjuster clockwise (viewing the adjuster form rear, forwards); I would expect the adjuster to move to the drum hence, tightening here too.
Note, in both cases, viewing the adjuster head on, turning the screw clockwise should give a tightening motion. Does this principle hold on both sides?
I hope you understand, I am having difficulty in expressing my self here. I am quite sure how I will explain that in the artilce?
Look forward to your answer if possible.
Cheers,