Save 30% of your fuel costs.

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GWOA Chairman
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Has anyone any experience of hho conversions? (see www.hhogas.at )   There is someone in Cirencester offering fitting these kits at around the £750 - £850 mark, and it works with petrol, diesel or LPG.   Sounds like a good deal with the fuel consumption of a G Wagen.   Tim

cox.adrian
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Re: Save 30% of your fuel costs.

spyder 1v (joe) is this the same system you fited to your G
 and if so what was the final verdict?

Spider1V
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Re: Save 30% of your fuel costs.

 Tim,

Adrian is right - please bare in mind that the figures published are all on a 5ltr V8. This is the same core system (hho). I have put a post up in the Alternative fuels (Quite surprised at some of the comments though!)

http://www.gwoa.co.uk/forum/hydrogen-alternative

Spider1V

fixwin38
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Re: Save 30% of your fuel costs.

Hi
does not work on any G' wagon engine that is fitted with a  Bosch Jetronic fuel management it requires the electronic pulse from the fuel management ECU which the Jetronic  system does not have ....

Pistonhead
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Re: Save 30% of your fuel costs.

Taking fixwin38's above comment and by applying logic to his comment rather than debating on the grounds of facts; as this is lacking throughout by makers claims.

I am not disputing his comment, merely, applying a dose of logic.

For the benefit of those who may not be technically minded, the K-jetronic is a mechanical but ingenious fuel injection system devoid of any electronic sensors in the periphery to constantly calibrate and meter fuel and air into the combustion chamber.

The more modern electronic fuel injection systems employ a combination of the following sensors air temperature, coolant sensors, throttle valve position sensors, altitude sensors, oxygen sensors and ambient temperature sensors. Information from all these sensors is used to refine the quantity of fuel injected given the driving conditions and controlling emission levels to achieve the most optimum fuel metering that, is possible to programmed. The ECU makes continuous calibrations based on information received from all the sensors.

Fuel is a hydrocarbon element and the principle of some sensors is, to monitor hydrocarbon levels resulting in fuel metered in and oxygen and hydrocarbon elements to sense the efficiency of the combustion process. The more efficient the combustion, results in low oxygen and unburnt hydrocarbons levels.

Now, introducing Diesel fuel injection, this too is largely a mechanical injection system, a kin to the K-jetronic system. Brown gas kit makers claim this technology works on petrol and diesel vehicles, so my point on that front is if it works for diesels, then how come it has not worked on the K-jetronic? We are assuming here the unit is working. Reading installation, instruction manuals on these kits, I do get the impression that, the likely hood of failure is evident and a chapter is dedicated to address just this aspect.

I feel readers are missing the point here. I am not claiming to be right but presenting a unqualified view of my perspective. The small amount of this brown gas that enters the induction chamber somehow acts as a catalyst which supposedly changes the characteristic of fuel mixture to achieve more efficient combustion hence gain better fuel economy and reduced emissions. By Tim Carnell’s post, I believe, he mentioned a change in fuel octane being improved.

I have not as yet, read any scientific explanation on how this technology works only the result it claims. Thanks to fixwin38’s comment, he has thrown in a crumb for eats but I am waiting on the meat (with the bone)!

fixwin38
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Re: Save 30% of your fuel costs.

Hi
fitting an lpg" freeflow" system onto a Bosch jetronic equipped engine will work but not econmically at today's prices..if the engine is not in 100% condition with 101% vacuum integrity the LPG will flood the inlet manifold as you switch the engine off so ideally a purge system is required but you cannot purge to atmosphere due to the combustable nature of the gas...if you do not purge then the next startup procedure injects petrol combined with the lpg lying in the inlet manifold into the cylinders often resulting in a backfire which invariably disconnects various vacuum pipes resulting in the engine not operating on either petrol or LPG..( the 280ge engine is more prone to this than the 230ge) having    different inlet manifold shape and cold start management...fitting LPG to the later 300ge engine in the 463 which has far more vacuum managed functions and as such is more prone to lost integrity causing the idler motor to increase engine revs after heavy braking / abs vacuum demand and this causes the vacuum controlled air mass sensor to behave arratically either stalling or revving the engine. later G' wagons with electronic fuel management will tolerate the "sequencial" lpg management system which operates in conjuctiion with the electronic pulse the management system sends to the injectors  
still will not work efficiently if there is any loss of vacuum integrity...
.gas consumption figures for the 280ge are 2.5 to 4 miles per litre and  for the 230ge  3 to 5 miles per litre   normal road use......