Running a G350 Turbo Diesel on biofuel - info wanted

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G 350 in Tallinn
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Greetings folks.

I am struggling to get some good info on running my 1994 G350 on biofuels - biodiesel mainly, but also SVO, WVO.

My engine is a 603.972 

I've had a good look on here and several other forums. 

I realise this is a very rare vehicle in the UK  but googling is not coming up with much.

However,one of the results from german wikipedia seems to indicate difficulties with biodiesel:

Die Motoren OM 601 bis 603 mit den robusten Bosch Reihen-ESP können nicht nur mit Biodiesel , sondern außerdem, ohne größere Umbauten, mit Pflanzenöl (z. B. Rapsöl ) betrieben werden.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_OM_601/OM_602/OM_603

which google translates (not very well) as:
The engines OM 601-603 robust Bosch Series ESP can not just biodiesel , but also without major alterations, with vegetable oil (eg canola oil be used).

Of course, as this is not referenced in the article I cannot check the source of this .

Any ideas?

Isle of Man
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Re: Running a G350 Turbo Diesel on biofuel - info wanted

Don't do it!!!!!

mortinson
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Re: Running a G350 Turbo Diesel on biofuel - info wanted

A free translation of the text would be as follows:

Die Motoren OM 601 bis 603 mit den robusten Bosch Reihen-ESP können nicht nur mit Biodiesel , sondern außerdem, ohne größere Umbauten, mit Pflanzenöl (z. B. Rapsöl ) betrieben werden.

The engines OM601 to 603 fitted with the robust Bosch in-line injection pump can be run not only with biodiesel but also can function without material modifications with vegetable oils (for example rapeseed).

I have run my OM603-powered G300 Diesel for over 25,000 miles now on 90% sunflower oil + 10% diesel.

Your engine is basically similar to mine, plus the turbo.

So no problem with running vegetable oil. You only need to change the fule prefilter and filter after 1,000 kms because the veggy will clean all the dirt in your fuel tank and carry it over to the filters.

For more info, see here:

http://www.rapsdb.de/detail.php?id=2411

http://www.rapsdb.de/view.php?sort=-LastTouched

Isle of Man
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Re: Running a G350 Turbo Diesel on biofuel - info wanted

I believe if you dig deep enough you will find a internal document that says it's not possible without damage - a warranty issue could be a problem also!!

G 350 in Tallinn
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Re: Running a G350 Turbo Diesel on biofuel - info wanted

Saludos Jesús, 
thanks for your reply. Yes, I've seen many of your interesting postings on various forums on the subject of SVO plus your entry in the rapsdb.de database show up in my Google results. There are a few 350 Turbo diesels running SVO in that database and loads of OM603s.

But I am still looking for facts about using biodiesel with this car.

Yours is a much better translation, thanks! Which translation website did you use? I have been working on the assumption that Google was as-good-as-it-gets state of the art in this field. Obviously not.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Isle of Man,
perhaps you missed the bit where I mentioned this was a 1994 vehicle? There is no warranty issue. The car is 17 years old this month. And the engine is a mechanical development of a much older design.

I would suggest that if you are going to strongly advise against the use of biofuel with this car it would be helpful to me (and others) if you would kindly support this assertion with some facts.

Otherwise people might think you're an oil industry troll. 

Isle of Man
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Re: Running a G350 Turbo Diesel on biofuel - info wanted

Oil industry troll - perhaps one day!!!

It's true I never thoroughly read the content  - the fact I have a G350 I naturally assumed your vehicle was the same - as  I have no knowledge or interest in 17year old vehicles I will not attempt to help any further.

gooch
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Re: Running a G350 Turbo Diesel on biofuel - info wanted

I'll assure you the 15,16,17,18,19 year old G-wagon's are far more better when it comes to reliability!
I've had 5 G-wagon's even newer ones and can say the earlier build Quality is far superior than the Later stuff!

The later G-wagon's had a host of big problems!

Electrical faults with the
1. Electronic keys failure
2. Battery goes flat/issue
3.Satnav rear fan packing up
4. parking sensor's issues
5. EPC drive packing up
6.sqeeks rattles/noises from frnt and rear parts of the body.
7. Front window regulators packing up
8.xenon front lights issue-2007 onwards- still ....
9.Cdi-injection pipes slit's- Yeap there were 31 incidents recorded even mine.
10. .......The list goes on.

p.s your G's still covered under warranty, if you end up keeping long term you will overcome one or two/three of these issues soon. The worst being the battery and electronic key, very expensive repair.

The earlier G's might be a little basic BUT are more reliable.

mortinson
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Re: Running a G350 Turbo Diesel on biofuel - info wanted

To: Isle of Man,

Yes, I am sure that this would be the case for your G350 Bluetec: if you were to use vegetable oil or indeed biodiesel in your G you would surely destroy that delicate high-pressure injection pump. Or the very sofisticated injectors. Or both. But that's not indeed the case with older Mercedes diesels. The OM616/617 and OM601/602/603 (indirect injection versions only) run lovely on rapeseed or sunflower oils, as proven by the thousands of users who run them thus. Use the link in my previous post and find for yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine#Quality_and_variety_of_fuels

Diesel fuel is a form of light fuel oil, very similar to kerosene/paraffin, but diesel engines, especially older or simple designs that lack precision electronic injection systems, can run on a wide variety of other fuels. Some of the most common alternatives are Jet A-1 type jet fuel or vegetable oil from a very wide variety of plants. Some engines can be run on vegetable oil without modification, and most others require fairly basic alterations. Biodiesel is a pure diesel-like fuel refined from vegetable oil and can be used in nearly all diesel engines. Requirements for fuels to be used in diesel engines are the ability of the fuel to flow along the fuel lines, the ability of the fuel to lubricate the injector pump and injectors adequately, and its ignition qualities (ignition delay, cetane number). Inline mechanical injector pumps generally tolerate poor-quality or bio-fuels better than distributor-type pumps. Also, indirect injection engines generally run more satisfactorily on bio-fuels than direct injection engines. This is partly because an indirect injection engine has a much greater 'swirl' effect, improving vaporisation and combustion of fuel, and because (in the case of vegetable oil-type fuels) lipid depositions can condense on the cylinder walls of a direct-injection engine if combustion temperatures are too low (such as starting the engine from cold).

It is often reported that Diesel designed his engine to run on peanut oil, but this is not the case. Diesel stated in his published papers, "at the Paris Exhibition in 1900 (Exposition Universelle) there was shown by the Otto Company a small diesel engine, which, at the request of the French Government ran on Arachide (earth-nut or pea-nut) oil (see biodiesel), and worked so smoothly that only a few people were aware of it. The engine was constructed for using mineral oil, and was then worked on vegetable oil without any alterations being made. The French Government at the time thought of testing the applicability to power production of the Arachide, or earth-nut, which grows in considerable quantities in their African colonies, and can easily be cultivated there." Diesel himself later conducted related tests and appeared supportive of the idea

mortinson
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Re: Running a G350 Turbo Diesel on biofuel - info wanted

I did the translation myself. I can speak an acceptable German.

Cheers

mortinson
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Re: Running a G350 Turbo Diesel on biofuel - info wanted

I concur with that. Only a couple of months ago, my G spent the night in a swollen river, while I slept peacefully in my bed. After some money spent on dismantling, cleaning, greasing and fitting it now runs as sweetly as ever. I doubt that the same could be said about a newer G.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MvNvRa9O7I

http://picasaweb.google.com/mortinson3/RescueInTheBlueNile

mark
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Re: Running a G350 Turbo Diesel on biofuel - info wanted

All Ocado's CDI Sprinter's run on Bio, apparently.

lallpress
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Re: Running a G350 Turbo Diesel on biofuel - info wanted

If you do run on Biodiesel,you must put in an additive,I'm not sure of the name but biodiesel has no sulphur and this is essesential, and it's the lack of sulphur in Bio that creates problems,but don't just take my word for it, do some research and I think you'll find I'm right.

montreal
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Re: Running a G350 Turbo Diesel on biofuel - info wanted

Jesus. Could you tell us a bit more about your set up.

Where do you get you Sunflower oil?

Is it recycled and filtered Waste Vegetable Oil (WVO) or clean cooking oil out of the bottle?

Do you filter it yourself at home?

Do you run a single tank system in your car?

Do you just add the required about to the tank and let it mix?

Do you heat the fuel pipework? Use and extra in-line filters?

Is power the same as on pump diesel?

I've been looking at doing this also.

D

 

tony.bruegger
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Re: Running a G350 Turbo Diesel on biofuel - info wanted

This is a pump matter.

M pumps [and bigger brother the P pump] are one of the best designs of all time and will inject anything if it will go through the elements.

Tha green tribespeople who still run T1 and 608 type vans use all sorts of alt. fuels without problems.

My advice is to fit a superior filter/water trap [as on older tractors and most plant [digging] machines]

In cold conditions some alt fuels will not flow or will need preheating.

Use a thin  oil additive eg ATF to keep pump lubed  ,maybe run 10% diesel anyway/

Be careful with straight kerosene [jet a-1] in a turbo engine if you work it hard....it burns hotter and you can melt a piston.

Many forums discuss this subject in great detail [yawn]

PS..until recently in USA semi trucks always tipped their old engine oil into the fuel tanks

 

Elbistan
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Re: Running a G350 Turbo Diesel on biofuel - info wanted

Hi Tony

What make are M pumps and P pumps please. 

Not a mechanic sorry. 

G-Restorations
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Re: Running a G350 Turbo Diesel on biofuel - info wanted

Bosch inline mechanical injection pumps, as fitted to G Wagen diesels and non CDi cars,  CDi. Engines have a high pressure pump which feeds a common rail to all the injectors which are controlled electronically by the ECU.  The injectors on these engines have finer jets which more viscous fuels  ie bio or waste engine oil won't work.  The engines which use the mechanical inline pumps have coarser nozzles and a lower pressure injection which will cope with heavier fuels

do you have a chip shop?  .... In house supply of fuel eh. If you settle the old oil then cold filter it to 1 micron  you can put it straight in the tank 

Gordon

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Elbistan
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Re: Running a G350 Turbo Diesel on biofuel - info wanted

Hi Gordon, 

Yes I do run a chip shop.  Our oil is currently being collected. I am hoping to buy a G wagon LWB that can handle waste oil. 

Thanks

G-Restorations
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Re: Running a G350 Turbo Diesel on biofuel - info wanted

I'm curious, how much oil does a chippy dispose of ?

Gordon

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Spider1V
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Re: Running a G350 Turbo Diesel on biofuel - info wanted

And if we turn up in a G do we get a dicount? cheeky

Spider1V

Elbistan
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Re: Running a G350 Turbo Diesel on biofuel - info wanted
Hi, Gordon, we dispose about 30 litres of oil a week. Any of you passing by in Chadwell Heath can pop into the Brother Fish Bar for Cod and Chips. Yilmaz