Removing Radiator
Hi All,
Just thought I would check for advice (hints/tips...pictures even?) on removing the radiator in my 300D (bolt locations, lift/shove/smack with hammer zones?). Need to replace water pump and although possible I believe without removing, would just like to do the job with a modicum of access and give me chance to treat some rust in the region. Can the shroud be removed with fan still in place, hope so but does look tight? Also hoping to replace viscous unit with Kenlowe fan (16" - advised in front of radiator, may affect visuals but seems common sense and help access under bonnet) - in long term suspect this will cover costs etc. Just need a week to get this done now... (not that I work to slow, just that I know other issues will appear!?!)
Thanks in advance,
Stewart
Hi Stewart
You should be able to remove the 4 screws holding the shroud on and let the shroud rest back over the fan. Remove water hoses after draining. Then remove the grill to give acces by removing 4 screws at top and 2 M6 nuts at bottom of grill securing to rubber mounts.
Then undo the 2 rubber mounts at the bottom of the radiator, remove the 2 bolts holding the oil cooler to the left side of the radiator, then undo the 4 M6 bolts holding the top rad. mounts on. The radiator should now be able to be removed by lifting upwards.
In my opinion, an electric fan is not a good idea, more to go wrong. The viscous system is fail proof and works well. IMHO!
Cheers Scott
Hi Stewart
Yeah, I see where your coming from with the electric fan, but in theory, the viscous ones don't turn at full speed when not needed either. And, if it does go wrong, you can lock it manually and it will still cool, can't do that with the electric one. Also, the wiring, unless done properly, is not so pretty or reliable. Not saying you wouldn't do it right, but there must be some thought put into it. Cheers Scott
Hi Stewart
Dont know what off road work the G does, but for sure Kenlowes dont like water too much and being "dunked" will cause internal seizure pretty quickly and leave you without and cooling at a point when you are likely to be needing it while off roading....
Gav
The water issue on electrical fans come be overcome by spraying the motor with water replants, protecting the motor and electrics the only thing is, you need to remember to use the stuff.
I would additionally wire into the circuit a switch to over ride the electrical thermostat should it fail and a pilot light that indicates when the fan is working.
Good points - hopefully reasonably water resistant as mounted in front of Rad and valid point about override switch. Although enjoy off-roading and splashing through puddles, as I still use as family car deep-water wading isn't on the agenda (when's next flood due in Sheffield though..?!?)
Rakesh - are you suggesting a mini rain forest or cacti to protect the fan? I know I have enough mud to keep replanting, but... (alright, so you meant repellent, but not as amusing!!!)
Stewart
Yes. yes that's what I meant.
Several years ago I researched the idea of replacing the viscous coupling with electric fans.
Several advantages - economy - increase in BHP and quicker warmup on a cold morning. Not very expensive either.
What stopped me was when a very nice V8 Defender died in a cloud of steam in front of me. We had both gone through water about 2ft deep and his 2 electric fans failed. No quick fix but fortunatly he had a tow home.
As I sometimes go though water on my way to work the viscous coupling staid.
Well my original plans were to keep viscous fan on shelf etc. However, no matter what amount of foul language I threw at it, could not remove it from water pump, didn't help not having required 70mm spanner, not part of my DIY toolkit... ended up removing water pump from engine block with fan attached (and boy, that was fun trying to get at some of the bolts). Even when removed from car could not separate them. Took it to MB dealer for advice (had to go and collect new radiator cap as mine has fallen to bits what with on/off to keep topping up) "O, we leave it on the car to remove, tool to clamp belt to hold whilst undo' - thanks, real help... How about just purchasing a new pulley (basically that was what I was after) well DA617 200 04 05 N/STK pulley comes in at £275!!!! Maybe not.
So, took it to a workshop and finally to get the water pump off. However bolt required to fix pulley to water pump integral part of viscous clutch (12 mm fine thread with flattened shoulders and bearing with retaining lip etc, not something could pick of shelf). Unfortunately no way to remove this and so finally band saw, hammers and full destructive go-ahead. Result was bolt removed, grinded flats at the top to allow spanner and clutch bearing retained as spacer.
Hope the bleedin' kenlowe works (electrics to do now) - keeping my eye open for spare viscous unit if one should come along!?!
Right, put it all back.
Few pictures to show final result - hopefully functional pulley with salvaged bolt to attach to water pump. Unfortunately binned viscous clutch. Hopefully acquire a spare viscous unit in the future, but not a priority. Left viscous unit bearing as spacer - note 70mm spanner required - I had nothing that size that I could fit into gap between pulley and fan. To remove bolt viscous unit was cut into pieces...
Stewart
So in an ideal world can you go through the steps to remove the viscous coupling in a non damaging way, I have the same design as yours with the pulley having two flats, mine although still working squeaks like a fan belt when the engines cold,
Thanks in advance Gordon
Yes - no reason the viscous unit shouldn't undo - just need good luck and persuarion, and 70mm spanner! I can now understand MB dealers approach (see above thread) of clamping belt and then undoi-ing, although screwdriver or similar through hole in water pump is possibly better (and simpler) bet. Would certainly hope I could do in reverse now, although when originally attempting was trying not to break anything (huh, no such luck). Good whack all that might (?!?) be required (standard thread , righty tighty, lefty loosey)... Good luck.
Regarding electric fan - still not heard it kick in yet although not exactly been warm has it? Convincing myself each mile is paying back the investment... (until overheat with catastrophic consequences?)
Do not undo the oil cooler pipes, they will strip and you will need a new oil cooler, they are like hens teeth, Undo the 2 small bolts and nuts attaching the oil cooler to the main rad and just move it to one side.
The ferules on the pipes are steel the oil cooler is aluminium, they never survive.
Hi Guys
Too late for Stewart but the special tool required to remove these Viscous units is part number W601 589 00 01 00.
They are £51.50 + vat from MBUK, MB Germany have stock.
It is indeed a 70mm Spanner of sorts, Actually a 1/2" square drive claw arrangment.
Would be quite easy to make one out of 6mm plate and weld together i guess if needed.
Would have saved the £500+ Viscous Coupling from a horrid death!!!!
Cheers
Gav
Procedure is after removing Fan Blades to use 70mm special tool and also lock the Water Pump from the hole in the top with an 8mm Mandrel (Pin / Drill bit) and undo.
Viscous Coupling is re torqued to 65Nm +/- 5Nm and Fan Blades are 10Nm
Cheers
Gav
Yeh, thanks Gave for confirming the expensive errors I incurred! Salt in the wounds etc... Mind you, I wouldn't have bought the MB tool but could perhaps have got one fabricated. Next time eh?
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Scott - thanks for this - seems like good engineering practice and reckon I can have a go at that. Regarding electric fan, debateable benefits but I always considered it may help (only operating when required does make sense) and not a lot to go wrong really. Viscous unit will still be stored on shelf...