Rear axle shunted over
Hi.
I have had original alloys put on my 85 300GD SWB. This has arch extenders. I have noticed that the offside rear wheel sits further into the arch (and the body, I have checked the arch width). This means the offside sits 35mm in whilst the nearside is 20mm.
The wheels are correct and have the right/same offset so it looks like the axle must be moved over and I have not noticed before - my old wheels sat outside the arches - my question is, is this possible? And assuming it is how do you get it back into alignment? Jack it up, loosen a few bolts and get a hammer out?
Any more experienced minds come across this?
Ta
Simon
hi there, you may have non matching wheel arches on the G. early vesions were wider than later models....
if all your alloys are the same there is no other logical explanation. unless that wheel that sits more in the arch is not matching the other 3. the early 463 had a 15" alloy like the 460 model but no lip and less off set due to the 463 having wider axle on uk spec model 463's.\\
rgds hus
There is a very logical explanation huss
If you lift (or lower) a g the axle will move to the side!!!
Ok, so affecting ride height shifts the axles centre point? To do with prop alignment/fit I guess
The G has had new rear shocks and springs, but they were from merc and to original spec, but you never know as I had to have the spring supports cut off and new ones welded in as the original ones were shot, perhaps they went in a bit high!
Ta
Simon
No, not the shaft alignment, it's because the axle is held laterally by a panhard rod, as the axle moves up or down, the angle of the panhard rod changes which will produce a minimal sideways shift under normal conditions (can be calculated if you want, but not a lot normally). Under normal load, the panhard rod is at it's least angle (parallel to the axle). It would take a lot of height change to move the axle 15mm, so if you say the wagon is on standard springs, it shouldn't have moved. (I don't think new spring seats will have changed it). 15mm is not a lot anyway really, but maybe one of the bushes (on the panhard rod, there are 2) has collapsed? This would be the only way the axle could move (apart from bent panhard rod but unlikely), there is no adjustment.
Exactly
Thanks for that Stig & Easydelux..
Plenty to go at, and the collapsed bush fits (and the best guess is the car has done +250k with little attention till I got it) with some info Fixwing sent so I will start investigations there. Car drives ok - the mechanics said if it was an early LR a 15mm difference would be considered 'acceptable' - but is a bit more 'eventful' on left hand bends.
Will get it on a ramp - after some shunt testing Fixwing suggested to flush out any bush problems - and see what shows up.
Thanks again to you all for the advice - greatly received.
Simon
You could have someone look underneath at either end of the panhard rod (it's the only rod, or looks like about a 40mm diameter tube running from the left of the axle to the right of the chassis) and have someone else push the car sideways, then you would easily see any movement in the bushes. However, I would think they are pretty difficult to destroy! The only way they may have been destroyed is if they had been retightened in an extended position after the spring seats were changed? Any way, this is all getting a bit complicated, are you sure it's not just that one arch has been pushed in or something silly like that? I don't think it would be absolutely perfect to within 0.5mm anyway...
Hi Stig..
my last reply crossed with yours. The G has had extensive and recent body work, and I do think something might just have got out of alignment ref arches - however they are both bang on 9cm from the body work and I have measured the inset horizontally and vertically using a level.
The only reason it bothers me is because the wheels are at visually different spacing and I am going to get some spacers to help the wheels (all of them) fill the arches better, so it would be better if they started life in the same place. As with many things to do with a G, what starts out simple, can at lot less simple quickly!
But I do agree - it is at risk of getting complicated as it seems to have no affect on ride/handling (not withstanding previous comment about being a bit lively on left hand bends - but that's all relative in a G!!)
Many thanks again for your comments. As you say I think a quick trip to the garage (35k away unfortunatley) will flush the problem out!!
Ta
Simon
I know you said you checked your wheels but your problem sounds very much like you have a mismatched ET (backspacing) on one of your front wheels.
The 460 axle is 50mm narrower than the 463 so 463 wheels have a greater backspace to compensate for the wider axle. If you have a 460 alloy and a 463 alloy of the same style on the front of your G the 463 will sit much further into the arch which would explain your 15mm discrepancy.
It would not be difficult to mix up an early 463 15" alloys with the later 460 alloy of the same style.
Might be worth measuring the backspace on the two front wheels just in case.
If my memory serves me right Anakreon did managed to correct the sideswing by making his panhard rod adjustable (or elongating it every so slightly) to that he could get it level. It was about 2 years ago and I can't find the thread. Have a look at it: there were some photos as well - really excellent workmanship if I may say so as well. Good luck/ph
Hi..
Yep.. I did check the serial numbers, but I might have mis-read one of them, and after reading 3 perhaps I just assumed the fourth was the same :-). But you are right, best to start with the obvious first - shame the code is on the back of the wheel!
Many thanks for all the ideas..
Ta
Simon
Your memory is good! I found the thread but alas no pictures there:
http://www.gwoa.co.uk/node/5387
but fortunately he sent them to me originally to post them, so I will post a couple from that collection...
Many thanks to all for the ideas and effort on this one.
Talked to the guy who works on the car today and he has got to the same conclusion as many of you.. I.e panhard rods as the likely culprit - providing it is not simply a 'wrong' wheel..
He is well on the way to becoming a G expert, but it was another garage who did the shock/spring work, so let's see what they find. I am going to get some spacers from Orc.de and get the panhard rod looked at when the arrive..
Thanks again for all you contributions - if it turns out to be something else I will let you know!
Ta
Simon
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Many thanks Hus.
Wheels are the same visually and pretty sure I checked the product number on all four. I have measured arch depth and they are the same - they are fibreglass so most likely aftermarket so may be wider than the 'rubber' originals.
As you say it should not be moved over, but something is out of shape. Fixwing has come up with a few suggestions and I will have a trip to the garage I use who are big Land Rover fans and see what they think, but even they were bemused (although would not have been surprised if it was an early LR!) when I told them
Sure I will get to the bottom of it and all contributions great fully received.
It will be a bit easier when it is up on a ramp I guess..
Ta
Simon