Hello and the question which brought me here!
Hello. I'm here mainly because I really need some help with my 4wd requirement. I need a vehicle which will not get stuck during our annual trip to the Swiss alps. (Some off-roading is involved). A Range Rover and two Defenders have failed in this regard. The locking diffs on a G-Class look increasingly attractive. Also, I get the impression that, if I buy a G-Class, I'm unlikely to need to buy another. But here's the problem. I really need seven seats. So, the question is — if I buy a current model G Class is there any way to add the jump seats, or will I have to try a a Discovery?
I have searched the site for this information but failed to find an answer. (That's not to say that it's not there). Any advice which anyone could offer would be very much appreciated.
Hello Richard and welcome.
How old a G Wagen do you want to have? I am not sure if you can get the side facing seats for the new versions, unless it's and after sales? From a 'get you there' point of view the G with the right tyres should be able to take you almost anywhere you need to go. However I would check with the AA/RAC first.
Unless some other member has an idea?
Spider1V
Hello Richard,
Interesting question, simply put, the G-Wagen is, for me an obviously superior choice for offroading in that, it has internally operating front and rear axle locking differentials.
Be aware, some European specifications can come with or without locking axles altogether or some have opted for rear axle locks only - do check.
No matter what vehicle you choose, its offroading performance is only as good as the tyres you have, given the conditions. Even the best snow or offroading tyre can loose traction in extreme snowy, sandy or muddy conditions; it all depends on the surface conditions and the extremity of driving conditions.
After tyre choice, there is snow chains or snow socks to opt for better traction. In the extremes, after market track laying kits; like I mentioned, it will depend on the road conditions.
See: http://www.americantracktruck.com/
I believe a kit for the G-Wagen was under consideration when I last looked into this some time last year. The kit is available from a UK supplier at some £2000 per wheel.
As for the rear facing seat or as some call them, jump seats; these can be bought from the dealers at some £4000 or at a third of the price if bespokely commissioned.
Without qualifications or experience of, have you considered an R-Class (forwards, seven seater) or a GL-Class? These are both SUV's, not necessarily a cross country vehicle as the G-Class is but may meet your needs and cheaper.
My suggestion: You ought to have two sets of tyres as is practiced in Europe. All season tryes for normal driving most of the year and winter tyres for when you go to the Alps.
Do let us know what you decide and why the choice. Hope this is of some help.
Good Luck
Did you use Snow Chains on LR products, in snow around here these make such a difference?General Grabber AT2 tyres have a snowflake on the side, though I have no experience of them yet
I have links of interest for you to look over and consider. Interestly, in one of the links below, it is claimed that the best of snow socks perform slightly below a winter tyre, so the conclusion is to go for chains instead.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/wheels-and-tyres/60709/best-winter-tyres
http://www.roofbox.co.uk/snow-chains/?gclid=COTvo4bl0LkCFeGWtAodW3gA_A
http://www.thule-snowchains.net/
http://www.thule-snowchains.net/4x4-snow-chains/K-Summit-XL-snow-chains/
http://www.autosockdirect.co.uk/?gclid=CM2V7t_n0LkCFWXKtAodOWsAdQ
http://www.which.co.uk/news/2012/02/exclusive-which-car-snow-socks-test-...
If the Defender got stuck given the adaptations you used perhaps you would do better with a Unimog or even a vehicle with tracks. I am sure you are aware the G Wagon has less wheel articulation than said Defender and will bottom out in deep snow or mud, there is realy little between them in terms of progress in difficult conditions the real difference is in quality and price.
Quote:
prwales quotes "I am sure you are aware the G Wagon has less wheel articulation than said Defender and will bottom out in deep snow or mud,"
Sorry 'pr' but I beg to differ. I agree the Landies have greater wheel articulation but that, in no way disables the G-Wagen in offroad performance in any way; the internally operated front and rear axle diff locks over comes this issue altogether.
As far as the the vehicles are concerned on packed snow, both are almost of similar height between ground and chassis and I expect, could similarly bottom out as each other. Here, wheel articulation has no advantages as the wheel will ride over packed snow to a degree. The G-Wagen would dig into the snow pack a bit more as it is heavier.
Where articulation becomes a needed advantage for the Landies is maintaining ground contact on excessively undulated ground by two wheels of the same axle in order to maintain traction.
No matter what vehicle we agrue or debate over, the crux is, the 'choice of tyre'. One would not walk on ice with work boots (akin to mud terrains) rather be choosing snow boots. (I agree a poor analogy but one that makes the point).
Richard, in his last thread mentioned, he is runing on mud terrains. I would have mentioned that these are no good on snow and to go for snow tyres; I have some illustrations to prove this point. Watch.
From Pistonhead's gassing topic (for the new comers, I have no connections here) a contributor has quoted:
cptsideways - contributor of quote.
"Mud terrains are not really designed for packed snow ice, they are better than most road tyres but without the sypes & suppleness they wont beat a winter tyre". - source, http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=3&t=906035&d=0&nmt= (8th thread reading down).
Below is a temporary but immediate answer to being stuck on black ice conditions.
Now, is that value for money or what?
Hi
Having spent two winters commuting from Austria to" the then" Yugoslavia I found the way to progees safely on snowy/hilly roads (which was most of them) the narrower the tyre footprint the better the traction /// big fat tyres act like skis on packed icy snow whatever the tread
a set of standard steels and 750 x 16 winter treads for your G' wagon plus no erratic acceleration or steering
who needs chains ??
Absolutely correct , + maybe lower tyre pressure 20%
If a Defender has had Diff locks fitted aftermarket, fairpoint, but having seen a 2008 Defender Struggling with traction control and narrow 7.50X16 tyres on a snow covered hill , not convinced! Though G synrco transfer box some asset when snow on the road, though both vehicles equally bad when gravity takes over and you start sliding backwards down the hill.
Chains, quality ones 5 to 10mins to fit all four , wouldn't be without them, transforms a G in bad snow , no fear stopping on icy/snow covered hills, not sure they are good for front CV joints tho! Failing that 7.50 x16 studded tyres would be great!
Hi Richard,
As well as the G, we also have a GL (which has a full 7 seat configuration and a boot). The G is better offroad, but this may also only be because I'm not as fussed about scratch marks on the paint: the wife owns the GL! What I was going to say however is that it surprises me how good the GL is off road. On AT tyres is gets up some pretty tricky mountain passes in Wales every now and then and ours is fitted with locking mid and rear differentials (I think they call this the 'off road package' which was included in ours but might not be standard equipment). I imagine, it will go about as far as a Disco in the dirt, simply because YOU - not the electronics - have the control over the traction control with the locking diffs. Where it is hands down the winner is in SPACE: more than anything else, except a Suburban........and they're no good off road!
Good luck with your quest,
Ph
What do the locals drive in the Alps?
When in Rome............
And if you see G's in Switzerland it may be because of the 50% grant the Swiss army gives the owner to borrow it in time of crisis!!
Lets assume the Swiss Army knows the best car for the conditions.
ON& OFFROAD package including drive programme switch and animation in COMAND display, manual mode for automatic transmission, 100% differential locks on centre differential, front and rear axles with adapted 4ETS,...
Code 430
OK I got the from the Product Manager for MB UK GL's I am asking is there in only one locking diff - centre and the other are the ETS diffs - which are software and not hadware controlled.
Spider1V
gosh, are those rear jump seats really £4K? sounds unreasonably pricey.
gosh, are those rear jump seats really £4K? sounds unreasonably pricey.
so unreasonably priced in fact that my browser posted the response twice, just to be sure.
YUP!!!
MB list them on the EPC parts system...
Seat Kit A463 930 15 05 9E43 Black (x2) (not handed) £1586.00 each + vat
Trim A463 934 02 73 9116 Black Dull (x2) (not handed) £240.00 each + vat
Rivet A460 990 00 92 9051 Black (x4) £1.50 each + vat
The sales codes i make to be S71 Right Side Facing Rear Seat and S72 Left Side Facing Rear Seat
Looks like we got lucky with our GL then, as it definitely has locking diffs in middle and rear....but it is an older model and unfortunately they no longer have the diesel V8 option available either... Richard, you may have to look at earlier models for the GLs as they have manually locking diffs (middle and rear only though)
At the end of the day.....if you really do want to arrive there, without question, get a Pinzgauer!
G500? Ohhh Lets see some pictures! What year? Was it the Black one from Beck Evans?
Rest assured, you have the BEST best vehicle with the best Engine in the whole G range. See you tomorrow at the AGM?
Spider1V
I hope you get some decent narrow 16 tyres for your snow adventures, contact Gav he has a new set of the proper 461 steel Wheels , though you will need the shorter wheel bolts .
Hi Richard,
You could always take your G500 to the Wolftruck company and let them convert it to one of these !!!
Check out there website here www.wolftrucks.com
Hi Rich
Heres my ten pence worth
Look at winter tyre tests on the net. I bought a set for my bmw and they were as good as in the adverts. I only did it as a cheapskate route as winter tyres secondhand were cheap lol. I was amazed to be fair. They relly made a night and day difference that i would not have believed unless i tried some
I am certain a g wagon will out run anything in snow because all wheels can drive so no other vehicle as standard can match that
If i had the sort of money you are spending this would be my choice
Buy 2 secondhand g wagons that are older and you will loose no money when you sell them. They hold value well. A set of walkie talkies and you have a vehicle to help if needed
Its not the driving problem its the stopping carefully down an icy slope with a hairpin at the bottom
Check out some videoes of swiss driving and swedish ones.
I think you will be fine and have a fun adventure
G wagons hold money and are well built and sorted with diff locks
Landrovers could be had for half the money but i personally dont think they are as reliable , but spares available worldwide with ease
I would go g route and never look back. Ive done the rest but there is one super contender that could be your answer. A toyota landcruiser amazon with lots of room and 7 seats and cheaper too
Look at what people use in extreme conditions, g wagon, landcruiser and nissan patrol
How good was that ;lol but my choice, the rest is up to you
G
Hello Richard, I live in Switzerland and all I do is change to my winter wheels shod with michelin alpine winter tyres. She goes everywhere without even activating diff locks. Every weekend in winter I take her up to our mountain cabin and never have any issues. When I say no issues, I mean it.
Forgot to add tire size.
Michelin latitude alpine. 255/55/18, you can pick them up in virtually any size. I use them on my other cars as well.
We get quite a lot of snow and ice on our roads each winter here in N/W Scotland. My G500 is shod with Conti 4x4 Winter Contacts in 255/55x18. I never seem to have any difficulty getting around and very rarely have to use diff locks. Do sometimes use centre lock when negotiating our access from the main road which is quite steep and often snow/ice bound.
Our other main vehicle in the winter is an ML (recent model) which is shod with same conti tyres and also usually has no problem with road conditions in winter; in fact, the hill descent control works really well on our private access on ice! However, like the newer GL models, it doesn't have proper locking diffs - just electronic substitutes - and is ultimately not as good as the G in heavy snow conditions.
I love my G500 and at some point im sure we will be going Skiing with it. Maybe not this season as my boys are too young for such a long journey in the car.
It is an excellent choice.
You do see a lot of G's in the alps with winter tyres and most of the time nothing else is needed. They are permanent 4wd and I have never been in such conditions requiring diff locks etc in the alps.
There are many many more GL's in the alps though.. many of them are private transfer taxi's but many privately owned too..
Hello Richard, I live in Switzerland and all I do is change to my winter wheels shod with michelin alpine winter tyres. She goes everywhere without even activating diff locks. Every weekend in winter I take her up to our mountain cabin and never have any issues. When I say no issues, I mean it.
Just ordered some Michelin Latitude Alpine Winter tyres in 205/80 R16
hopefully they will see some snow this year... My E350 Coupe has a set of Vredestein Winter tyres and they are a revelation on snow.. i didn't think a 2wd car could get so much grip!!
... am really looking forward to putting these to the test on my G in some extreme conditions.. and when i get a set of 18 inch wheels later next year... i will have a spare set of winters already mounted on 16s to change to when the going gets cold!!
My 4 very good AT tyres (2 wranglers and 1 khumo and one Cooper) will stay in the garage for the foreseeable future, as i doubt i will be going offroad anytime soon...well not deliberately at least!! i may decide to sell them.. im told these winters are usable all year round and as i dont expect to do more than 4-5 k a year... they may well last a decade! especialy if i get a second set of bigger wheels/tyres for
'the summer cool look' !
JOIN THE GWOA
This website and forum are provided for the benefit of enthusiasts and owners of all Mercedes Benz off road vehicles, in particular the G Wagen. The costs of development, upkeep and provision of the site are met entirely by the annual subscriptions of club members. If you are using the site and are not a member of the G Wagen Owners Association please consider joining. You will have access to areas on the site that are not open to non members, to club trips and meetings and to technical assistance. In addition your contribution (only £25 annually) will help us maintain and develop our website for future users.
Who's new
- Jaffa_JIM_23
- Wrabstar
- GG
- KTMSCANIA22
- 280ge
