It has begun..............................
Last wednesday I started work on my G, I went down to Bill Moss's workshop who is helping me transform my G. The idea was to turn my 300GD into a very capable offroader. After a lot of discussion, well that is to say I would throw up crazy ideas and Bill would shoot them down, we decided on the following:
Change the rather wheezy OM617 for a OM617a
Fit a military gearbox
Widen the rims so that they will take 33 inch Simex tyres
2 inch suspension lift and extended shock absorbers
Hydraulic winches front and rear.
I have never worked on a car before so it was a bit of an eye-opener, not to mention grazed and bruised knuckles!!! But under the expert tuition of Bill I learned alot!
Tomorrow we can lift the engine and gearbox out, then start mating the military gearbox up to the turbodiesel engine.
I suppose I am lucky that the G is my second car and only going to be used for offroad, although it will have to be roadlegal.
Hopefully we will get the work done soon so I can take the G back to where it belongs:
in Gelande or in english: Offroad again!!!
Before the work started on the G it was offroaded at least once a week and in stock form amazed many a landrover owner, after its transformation I think their jaws will drop!
I do have some pictures, but I am unsure of how to post them here?
All in all a lot of work, will keep you posted!!
I can now lay my hands on a 6 cylinder turbodiesel out of a 124 series, very tempting although I think I'll stick with the OM617a, decisions decisions.......
Cheers
Richard
Sounds like a great project, good luck with it all. Love to see some pics.
Heres a link to a free online photo album http://www.picturetrail.com,, (there's loads of others, but there much the same).. Once your pictures are online, you can link them to the forums using the "Img" button.
A few pics of Richard's G..
There you go..... Jesus
:oops: ,, don't know why all the pics don't show, but there at http://www.picturetrail.com .. Type in "ploddy" as member name to see pics :D
:D
Thanks very much Jesús..
What is the story with the 124 series turbosiesel. Who owns it?. Is it for sale?
I'd be interested
Thanks Mark :lol:
I've bought the other engine myself for a 'future' project! A man can never have enough engines and gearboxes. I now have 4 gearboxes and 3 engines and 1 G :lol:
So I am sorry to say that the engine is not for sale
Richard
Richard,
What is difference or advantage in fitting Military gearbox?
Marcus
Richard,
What is difference or advantage in fitting Military gearbox?
Marcus
It's the best manual gearbox around for the W460. See this thread:
http://www.gwoa.co.uk/node/633
Regards,
As in for the stirring of excrement!
Checked out that thread Jesus, "no manual gearbox will stand torque from 617a engine"
in light of choosen specification as above?
Confused & perplexed,
Marcus
As in for the stirring of excrement!
Checked out that thread Jesus, "no manual gearbox will stand torque from 617a engine"
in light of choosen specification as above?
Confused & perplexed,
Marcus
Well, Marcus, perhaps I should finetune my comment.... All the reports I have ever had over the years of people who have converted their diesels to turbo and used and abused their trucks off the road have seen the durability of their manual gearboxes down to a few thousand kilometers. But I believe that these experiences are confined to the gearboxes fitted to the W460, not the G1/18-5/4,7 711.117 and the G1/18-5/6,15 711.116, which were only fitted to the 461.
That's why I believe Mercedes has always coupled the turbo engines to automatic gearboxes.
Naturally, if someone only uses his G on the road and is extremely careful with the way he demands power delivery from his engine that might not be the case, but this is what I have been told.... Unless that is that they fit a G1/18-5/4,7 711.117 or a G1/18-5/6,15 711.116.......
Cheers
whats the driffent in the tubro 617a and the 617 engines??
and how much are the 617a from holland??
peter
the difference between a 617 and a 617a is the TURBO :D
I believe that the innards of the engine are completely different to cope with the stresses that the turbo places on the engine.
A turbo-engine in Holland, if you can find one, is about £1000.
But they are very very rare..........
Richard
OM617A has 125 HP versus 88 HP of the OM617
Also torque is 280 NM versus 172 Nm.
Unfortunately, OM 617A was only ever fitted in Europe to the W123 300TD Turbodiesel do finding a good engine is a matter of luck. Prices vary accordingly.
Cheers
Thanks Jesus, that answers my question.
Marcus
PS. When Bill first described project I asked the same question as peter-g-man re 617 vis a vis 617a engine?
i know the turbo but i whanted to know about the engines ie: is the engine strenghten?
is the compression lowered? is there any mark on the engine
because i have a 300d turbo car conversion and wonder if the engine had any work done to it?
also me friend had a 300gd with a turbo engine from the g centre in holland with a large intercooler very fast but it melted thr injector noble off the head?? hes fitted a 124 engine
peter
i know the turbo but i whanted to know about the engines ie: is the engine strenghten?
is the compression lowered? is there any mark on the engine
The internals are strenghtened (new connecting rods, pistons, etc), but compression is still 21:1
As far as I know there is no way of telling from outside of the engine. But I guess that the engine number will tell.
Regards,
A few more pics from Richard..
:D
I concur with J ref Gearbox, since converting mine I am on my 2nd box, I have carried out an extensive examination of the gearbox that collapsed to find that the components that give up are just the bearings. all the bearings have been replaced with greatley uprated uprated bearings that have the same dimensions(of course) but are designed differently to take higher torque, I am also examining closely the types of lubrication available, at the moment I have a good quality friction modifier in the oil.
There is a draw back to the mil box if you are using your G mainly on road and that is the extremley low first gear ratio, which leads be to belave that if my latest mod doesnt work I will try a 4 spd box, the second toughest gear box in a G.
Bill Moss
The differences are many and varied, but in a nut shell the 617a is designed as a turbo engine fron scratch based on the tried and tested 617 block, subtle differences like twin timing chains uprated oil pump angine bearins pistons valves and cylinder head, the big difference is that it has a turbo, it is probabl;y the toughest engine ever put in a G, when fitted to estates exported to USA milage of 3,4,and even 500,000 miles have been achieved,
Any more news on the project? Hows it all going? When we all coming round for a test drive? :lol: :D
Held up for bits t the moment but soon to get going again
Bill,
Getting a bit confused,Jesus says 617a only fitted to W123 300TD in Europe, when you say it is toughest engine ever fitted in a "G" do you mean retrofitted?
Me being new to Mercedes owenership a lot of the references such as W123 as above are lost on me, if I seem to e nit-picking re these details.
Marcus
Retro fitted, a common occurence in lhd countriesparticularily usa and done easily, rare in rhd and supposed to be impossible with air con and even more impossible to fit intercooler.
I think mine is the only rhd 460 fitted with air con that has a 617a turbo intercooled engine fitted.
It will shortly be fitted with a military gearbox.
Richards will be turbo only with military gearbox. and off road prepared.
Thanks Bill,
Had also read & re-read previous comment re high milages in USA, being under the impression that only petrol "G"s ever sold there, so you have answered that as well.
Marcus
Thanks Bill,
Had also read & re-read previous comment re high milages in USA, being under the impression that only petrol "G"s ever sold there, so you have answered that as well.
Marcus
For the sake of clarification...
Only Gs officially ever sold in the USA are G500, G55 AMG, G55 Kompressor AMG.
You can find all a few units of all other models but they are grey imports. Some organized imports (but still unrelated to MBUSA) by Europa in New mexico (later GWagen USA: http://www.gwagen.com/flash.html ) and currently Norm Keiser (Keisermotors: http://www.keisermotors.com/ )
Now people are beginning to import 1979 G-Wagens since they qualify for the 25-year-old federalisation exemption, so you even see Puch 240 GDs imported stateside.
Regards,
And what do we know about 123/124 imports?
Hi Richard,
I was down at Brontil this morning buying a set of plugs for mine ( G&S about as much use as a handbrake in a canoe today) and saw your G on the corner, no idea Bill Moss was in Dav, right on my doorstep.
They also told me the story of the missing Ford Ranger. Bad luck Bill, seems to be quite a bit that going round at the minute. :(
Yup, that is my baby!
We are certainly getting there, we ( when I say we, I mean Bill) have now managed to get the militarybox to fit the turbodiesel-engine which has been a bit of a nightmare, sadly I forgot my camera for this momentous occasion!
Bill has also figured out how to make a new gearselectormechanism as 1st gear is to the left and down and reverse is to the left and up.
All the other bits and bobs have been sourced now so when Christmas is out of the way we can start on it again.
I am lucky that Bill has already done this engineconversion on his G as there is alot more involved than I first thought.
I will post a few more piccies in the new year
Richard
JOIN THE GWOA
This website and forum are provided for the benefit of enthusiasts and owners of all Mercedes Benz off road vehicles, in particular the G Wagen. The costs of development, upkeep and provision of the site are met entirely by the annual subscriptions of club members. If you are using the site and are not a member of the G Wagen Owners Association please consider joining. You will have access to areas on the site that are not open to non members, to club trips and meetings and to technical assistance. In addition your contribution (only £25 annually) will help us maintain and develop our website for future users.
Who's new
- Jaffa_JIM_23
- Wrabstar
- GG
- KTMSCANIA22
- 280ge
Engine (OM617a) being collected from Holland by Bill Moss in his pickup
Still have not worked out this picture thing ..........................