Buying & importing 2nd "G" from Germany
Been considering purchasing 2nd "G" Ex Germany as above,
I want a 463 LWB Diesel and have come to some conclusions erroneous or otherwise.
( i ) Rule out 350GD, thirsty & cyl head problems -- as gleaned from this Forum.
( ii ) Would like a 270CDI but as per other posts/comments prices are still high 2nd hand.
( iii ) Therefore had narrowed it down to 177HP Model, seem to be plentiful in Germany,
presumably reasonable performance, but what is fuel consumption like?
( iv ) What are implications or drawbacks of buying a specced up 461, 120HP --
in respect of handling, roading, general comfort & fuel consumption as there appears to be a few about, and a bit cheaper to buy.
I had not sussed re changing headlights, are required RHD lights shared with any other MB models (preferably commercial ),
I have not yet enquired of MB re list price for headlights,
On the other hand if anyone wants to sell me a suitable RHD "G" ?
Marcus
( iii ) Therefore had narrowed it down to 177HP Model, seem to be plentiful in Germany,
presumably reasonable performance, but what is fuel consumption like?
This would be my first choice....... excellent performance, sufficient economy (20 mpg), durable and reliable. Holds value a lot, though.
( iv ) What are implications or drawbacks of buying a specced up 461, 120HP --
in respect of handling, roading, general comfort & fuel consumption as there
Put it this way: a new 461 is exactly as a new 460, but the former offers the performance and economy that the latter never did.
I love them. You can ask Howard Green who is the proud owner of one of the last W461 in RHD ever made.
The only problem is that I don't see the price advantage of the W461 versus a contemporary W463, despite the meagre level of equipment and the limited "appearance".
I had not sussed re changing headlights, are required RHD lights shared with any other MB models (preferably commercial ),
I have not yet enquired of MB re list price for headlights,
The headlights of the W460/461 are exactly the same as those fitted to the VW Golf II. As for the W463 they are similar bar for the height adjustment. In fact I have the Hella headlights for a Golf fitted to my W463. You can buy them in any Hella distributor for some £26 + VAT each (half price than MB's)
Cheers
The 463 headlight is the same as a mk 1 Golf . That's what I have fitted to mine. Got it for a fiver new. Not OEM
The 461 has an elegant simplicity of part-time 4-WD and, by the way, the ABS, I believe, turns off in 4-WD mode. Also the interior is more suited to a working-vehicle lifestyle, so you don't need to worry about mud on carpets. The 461 chassis is also slightly more rugged, having retained more cross members than the 463.
However, with full-time 4-WD the 463 handles better and more safely on the road. The comfort is about the same, difference in seats excluded. Also, of course, the 463 will normally have more gadgets and toys.
They are the same, but different...
Arnie,
Thanks, a clear & succient reply, 1st sentence, 2nd paragraph tells me all I need to know as vehicle is for the Mrs, me being uneasy with her driving 460 over the winter.
Marcus
Guys,
No W460 or W461 was ever fitted with ABS, with two exceptions:
The pre-production 463s, which had the 463 chassis, engine and complete drivetrain but fitted with the 460 bodywork, and
The current W461, which again has the complete 463 chassis, engine and drivetrain (from the G270 CDI) but 461 bodywork.
If you have been offered a 460/461 with ABS they're aither cheating or it's one of the above.
The 461 chassis is also slightly more rugged, having retained more cross members than the 463.
I don't agree with this... the change you mention about the number of crossmembers is that one that the 460 had in the middle was replaced by a pair of smaller crossmembers in the 463.
Also some things are bigger and better in the 463 compared to the 460, like the front CV joints (beefier in the 463) and the brakes (larger vacuum reservoirs in the 463).
Still, a perfect-condition 461 (like Howard's) is a beauty to own and drive.
Cheers,
The 461 chassis is also slightly more rugged, having retained more cross members than the 463.
I don't agree with this... the change you mention about the number of crossmembers is that one that the 460 had in the middle was replaced by a pair of smaller crossmembers in the 463.
quote]
I thought that the "461" had the "460" chassis, so appologies if I am wrong. Also, I know that none of the "460" had ABS, but I was sure that ABS was mentioned in a "461" brochure that I have. Still, I'm sure you're right on this.
However, the "460" does have additional cross-members and has tubular sections which protrude into the wheel arches, giving greater collision protection.
Yes, the "463" has a large front tubular section which is used as the plenum for the brake-servo and other improvements, even rear disc brakes, with revised axle bearings on the newer ones.
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Jesus, & Roly,
Thank you much re headlight info, nub of 461 vis a vis 463 was that on the site I was on they did seem to be cheaper spec for spec, was puzzled though that any 461's I have seen all have been quoted as having ABS, contradicts MB's development of full time 4 wheel drive as a prerequisite for ABS but can only presume that electronics/technology have come on since that time.
Was querying 461/463 re roadholding/driving comfort as I understood that the 463 was well superior to the 460 in these respects -- therefore if a 461 is really a 460 in all but name ( & engine ) surley there is still a discrepency in comfort at least -- not that I would fault the handeling of a 460 ( for a 4WD vehicle ) in comparison with say one of the new Santanas ( sorry about that reference Jesus ), but lured by the 2.8 Iveco engine I was.
So anyway Jesus back where I started, had looked to 463 as first choice ( see ramblings as above ) But why do you love 461's then, and yes I was admiring Howard Green's ( did I get the aspotophy right there Roly ? ) SA spec 461 at AGM.
Enough for now,
Marcus