The best suspension for road use
The LWB that I bought has recently had it shocks replaced all round by the previous owner. They are all still clean and shiny. The springs were also replaced on the rear.
But now that the brakes have been renovated it feels to be wallowing under hard breaking. This is more noticeable at the front end. It also tends to wallow into corners.
The previous owner had a second G Wagon (a 463) and talked of a firmer suspension option. He said that this transforms the ride on the road.
Can anyone please remind me what this set-up is called and where it is best to buy these from?
If you have had a new set of brake discs and pads; it is not good practice braking hard unless in a emergency.
For the first two weeks or some 1500 miles, use gentle braking to allow the discs to temper.
You say the brake have been renovated, aside from my above assumption, does this include the brake fluid has been renewed?
With the steering box being fitted, has the front tracking been set? Are the tyre pressures even and correct all round?
I would check the shock absorbers by pressing down each corner of the vehicle and release the down ward pressure and notice the number of oscillations the released force produces. These should be equal to each about one and half to two oscillations and stop. If the oscillations continue; your shocker absorber is shot.
Very rare in this country, but if you can find a garage with on-the-vehicle shock absorber tester, this might scientifically prove the case.
Have you any idea if the previous owner fitted genuine or after market shock absorbers? If it can be verified were these the , are correct ones for the wheel base?
Finally and if not mentioned before is the front wheel bearing play within tolerance? This should be between 0.01mm to 0.04mm movement checking with the dial gauge. Note: excessive wheel bearing should not be adjusted up, the measure will not last long; you are looking at replacing wheel bearings and with that goes renewing the Kingpin bearings.
The standard springs are quite adequate for road use, you can get harder springs but some have commented the drive is harsh after fitting these. Try inflating you tyres with nitrogen instead of air. This could cost under £2 per tyre.
Koni raid Tony. Set almost full rebound on front. Not the heavy track versions. D
Thanks Montreal,
Koni Raid is what the previous owner suggested I think. Have you got some on your G?
You can't really compare a G with a road car, whilst less prone to roll than a similar aged RR its still like a ship at sea compared to a modern saloon. Enjoy the improved visibility and road presence, forget traffic light grand prix and enjoy the journey it will take longer but you will get there
I think that you are probable right there PR Wales. I've recently had low cost cars like Nissan Leaf, Golf Estate, Sharran and I'm probably expecting it to handle better. Although I did own an old 2 door Discovery 15 years ago so I am trying to be realistic with my expectations.
I live near to Gordon who does the diesel conversions so I would like to get him to drive it and gain his opinion. In fact, decision made, I am going to free it from the garage next week and drive it down to him. Thanks for making me stop and think.
Koni Raid shocks work very well on the G in my experience. Consider them when your current set are shot.
Gav Helme on this forum could suggest heavier factory spring sets but beware they can be very harsh.
BFGoodrich tyres with triple-ply side walls would also firm things up nicely.
30mm wheel spacers all round will widen the track. The trade-off here is shorter wheel bearing life.
Eddie.
Have you noticed any improvement in the steering since you fitted the new steeringbox ?
I think that you might be expecting to much regarding handling from your 30 year old, two and a half ton, top heavy G Wagon.
Thanks Eddie,
I've been on the BF Goodrich site but they don't appear to offer the size.
My G has MB alloys currently wearing 265 x 70 x 15 H112.
I would be happy to take the increased wear on wheel bearings so any other suggestions are welcome.
Hi Big Block,
The steering box has eradicated the steering wheel play.
It may well be that my "let's slap a new one on" approach will not make my G handle like it did when new. I was aiming to make it feel like a new one as I suspected that they didn't originally ship feeling like a sloppy thing.
I do now intend to let another G Wagon owner give me an impression of whether my cars handling is the norm before making any big moves to replace the relatively new suspension.
p.s. Am I correct in assuming that you have a vehicle with a big block Chevy in it?
BFG All-Terrain 31' x 10.5' x 15' should fit. Considered to be an 80/20 tyre, for 80% road, 20% off-road use.
Run them at 40psi for a firm but not bone shaking ride..
Spacers for sale here by Guido:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Mercedes-G-GE-GD-SPURVERBREITERUNG-WHEEL-SPACERS-...
You will want to get to know him.
Top 'o the afternnon to ya Need-a-Merc,
Those spacers sound like an interesting solution. My wheel studs need replacing as they are rustier than a 1970s Lancia.
I priced new studs from Merc and they were over £200 whereas those spacers come with studs at £300.
Pardon my ignorance but won't those spacers push the wheels out so that they are no longer covered by the wheel arches?
I know you like your new toy but take things slowly.
You mention studs? The W460 comes with wheel bolts and it is the W461 that will have studs.
Your idea of spacer to widen the track and, or fit wider tyres will make the vehicle look better, improve handling but you will need extended wheel arches; these are not cheap in the plastic one Mercedes do. Fiber glass versions are cheaper but have a poor look to them. I am guessing the wheel arches will set you back some £1500 - £1600. To add is tyres and wheels. Spacers not necessary - depends on the wheel you elect to fit.
I think, there are alternative sources that should sell the wheel bolts at just under £5.00 each.
Thanks Rakesh,
I drove the car back after buying it but other than that I've only driven it for 15 minutes on Friday. My mechanic has had it since buying it 3 weeks ago. I reckon that he'll have it for another 2 weeks. There has been lots of things to replace on it (I could write a long list of repairs todate) but still more to do mechanically. When he is finished the bodyshop will take a minimum of 3 weeks but that may extend depending on the availability of parts.
I do want to drive it but not until it is as good as it can be. Although it's not my ideal I can see this being a 3 month restoration in total. I had budgeted to spend around £7k on the car but I can see this increasing. Remember that I have given up my motorcycle passion in favour of the G and that did cost some serious money if you like things bob-on as I do.
I thought that studs/bolts were the same thing in that they are the screwy bits that hold the wheels on. I'd love to know where I can buy these for my MB 15" alloys at that magical £5 figure (chassis number in my signature).
I am going to replace the tyres but won't be changing the arches as that takes it away from standard. This car has a genuine 103,000 miles and has every MOT and invoice for repairs spanning back 25 years. The previous owner kept a comprehensive file of paperwork including brochures and price lists from new. There were elements of the car like the interior which are unblemished.
I realise that it won't be worth £15k when I'm finished but I'm doing it for enjoyment rather than profit. I'm not aiming to make it concours but I don't want to be visiting garages continually.
Here you go: http://www.rubicon-trail.com/G-Class/wheels/start.html
Well that page full of data has just confused me and there's no bolts for sale there.
I guess that I'm just going to have to buy the MB ones at £11.20 + VAT each.
That's £67.20 per wheel = £268.80 for wheel bolts !!! (we're only planning on spending £200 on getting the alloys themselves re-furbished)
I'm not at all technical. They are just dirty bolts to me.
Someone must know a link where I can just click and buy! Pretty please!
Hi tony. Its Del. (It was my car mate!). Yes konis on my 463 with increased tyre pressure(36-38) uprated front springs on mine. Works wonders. You could just re-plate the bolts. Del
Well that page full of data has just confused me and there's no bolts for sale there..
Someone must know a link where I can just click and buy! Pretty please!
Try again: http://www.rubicon-trail.com/G-Class/wheels/bolts.html
As show in the above thread by IanA2, you want to make sure that you go for the 45mm shank bolt from the links I have provided and that, you bolt is of a ball or radius seat.
A460 401 01 70 alloy wheel bolt prices vary from €7.00 to €12.00 each depending source.
The after market links prices are from under £2.00 each to under £6.00 each.
http://www.gwoa.co.uk/forum/wheel-bolt-detailing
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20-x-ALLOY-WHEEL-BOLTS-FOR-MERCEDES-BENZ-G-CLA...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_kw=mercedes+g+wagon+wheel
http://www.larkspeed.com/index.pl?c=WHEELBOLTS&s=category
Good Luck, or you can fit bolt covers.
Thanks Del,
Read the service history yesterday and I'm delighted with all of the records that you kept. So many thanks.
Found the Koni Raids at http://www.euro4x4parts.com/parts/ukh1021-853_shock_absorber_koni_heavy_track_raid.html
BUT the description suggests that they lift the car by 50mm which won't help my road only use. So I've emailed them to clarify and ascertain what they recommend on both shocks and springs.
I love the car and we've replaced loads; alternator (re-con the original), bonnet cable, steering box, battery, fluids & hydraulics, filters, belts, plugs, bottle jack, emmissions tune,etc. We're now on the inside; dash lights, fans, window winder, etc. Then it's having new panels & original paint.
The start up and running is now silky smooth with no dash lights. Brakes now very responsive. Everyone who sees it loves it.
Thanks again.
Regards
Tony
Hi Big Block,
p.s. Am I correct in assuming that you have a vehicle with a big block Chevy in it?
Hi Tone
A big block Chevy would not be very appropriate for my car but you are partialy correct because I do have a bigblock Ford ......
Nice Cobra, nice house too!
So many people put Chevy motors into their Cobra replicas and I agree that it should have a Ford. What car is it?
This is me on my last Chevy powered motorcycle (hence the question)
There's no substitute for inches
Here are some more. Bolt pack 2 was what I bought a while back for my 463.
You dont need this extreme version for road use. Heavy Track non Raid is what you need. I think i posted on here about where i got mine. Best price in the Uk. I think the raid version will be over damped and too stiff on the road if set too firm.
Cant beat a 454. None of this small block stuff for me. D
Re Rakesh's comment regarding bolt covers. Do you know where I can get these? I don't think they are a MB part as I tried the local dealer. Also tried 4x4.com without any success.
There are some bolt covers listed
They were standard fitment on the 1994 ?(ish) 463 series 500GE M117 V8 that AMG converted from 300GE's
Part number was A124 401 00 09 but they seem to have been No Longer Available for a while
The same part was also used on later 463's like the G350TD etc
It would look like they ran different bolts but should fit....
The caps were also fitted on some models of MB car like the 129 SL and 140 S Class etc
Maybe a breakers find.....
I have been out of the trade so long now; I can't even remember the basic size of the wheel nut I used to remove on a daily basis.
Therefore, I have selected both 17mm and 19mm sizes of wheel bolt covers in black or chrome finish. Some come with cap removing tool.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/chrome-wheel-nut-covers-19mm
http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/17mm-chrome-wheel-nut-covers
I use these caps:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wheel-Bolt-Nut-Caps-Covers-Trim-20x-19mm-Black...
Same as Ford Transit.
Yes 30mm spacers will bring the tyres fractionally out past the wheel arch flares. Probably an MOT fail. Remove them for the day :-)
Eddie.
Hi
Not one I would stake my life on, but when I got my suspension from the west coast 4x4 guys they pointed out - whilst I was looking at their Landcruiser stock- that protruding tyres were not in fact a MOT failure. It has become folk law apparently, but there is no stated failure.
Their view was that as long as the arches covered the major part of the tread, in effect the shoulder could protrude, you should be ok and irrespective you can argue if more is protruding.
Something to do with the rule being about chucking stones up, but not specifically about covering your tyres.
I used to have some wolf race wheels on that conformed to the tread in, but shoulders out rule and they passed twice
Ta
Simon
The construction and use regs actually state that 'no part of the tyre should be visible when viewed from above' so I think you may be wrong about the shoulder of the tyre being ok.
Thanks all ... BUT ...
I've now driven a 2nd G Wagon and done 150 miles in my own G. The suspension is OK and normal now that I've had something to compare it to. Ooops!
I met a local owner called Gordon who has half a dozen G's in various states of build at his factory PartX Wheels. I've never seen so many alloy wheels in my life! I'll be getting a set of his remanufactured wheels but I'm sticking with stock despite seeing some rather tricky non-original alloys that fit the G.
Next job is band readjustment on the autobox then paint. Watch this space ...
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Thanks Rakesh.
Wise words on the breaking in of new disks and pads. We didn't renew them as the disks are unworn and there's plenty left on the pads and shoes. We just took them apart and cleaned them before changing the fluid which was from before the war. Great brakes now.
The tyres pressures are bob on but I will be putting some new tyres on after we've finished fettling the mechanics and bodywork. The tracking is perfect since setting it up after the steering box change. I thought that the nitrogen in the tyres thing was to prolong any natural deflation but I will mention it.
I will check with the mechanic that he checked wheel bearing play. He is a longterm servicer of my cars so I wouldn't expect him to miss that whilst stripping the brakes down. We did make a point of noticing that the ball joints look in great condition.
I don't know whether the shockers are either correct for a LWB or OEM.
The shockers aren't tired as they are too new. I think that it boils down to the fact that I am not used to driving a car like this (easpecially not a 30 year old one) so I prefer a firmer ride.