606 Conversion
Christo took me for a blast in his 463 – 606na yesterday and I’m a 606 convert :-)
Although it is derived from the 603 it’s immediately obvious that it’s a far more modern engine.
Nice linear power delivery, similar to the 603, just more!
Great low down flexibility, despite what you may assume from a multi valve engine.
No nasty turbo lag, on / off boost nonsence.
Refined (relatively speaking of course)
Sounds good.
Definitely breaths better/freer reving. No discernable drop off in power delivery all the way to the rev limiter.
It’s BIG though, definitely a tight fit! It’s certainly apparent that it’s not a simple swap, not for the faint hearted or amateur!
Russ
Sounds like a good conversion. Tell me how does it go along its side? :)
Spider1V
I hope enough attention was payed to cooling, they get very hot when pushed.
Saying that, I never had to resort to the bonnet into the wind pose on mountain passes. :-)
To be fair, this was before Shauns was breething properly.
The LC's just couldn't cope. ;-) lol
I think we should have a wip round and get him some castors from B&Q to bolt on to the rain gutters.
i think christo keeps watching those arabs in dubai doing side wheelies in the lc's !!! but has not perfected the art yet...
who is that lc owner that keeps lifting his bonnet at every oppurtunity ???!!! is it cliff or piggy ?
russ, the 606 is a great engine. much improved over the 603 and relatively easy conversion for 300DGL 463 owners as you can carry over lots of bits and pieces like the sump, oil pump, engine mounts etc. 606 can reach 160 bhp if the IP is tweaked a bit.
personally for all the grief your going through to fit the 606 i would go one better and fit the 606a i first encountered the 606a power in marks G when i couldnt keep up with him in my ruby on the way to stonehenge a few years back.bloody powerful or what was my immediate thought. spider and him were long gone by the time i tried to push hard and cathc them up.
I could help out anyone here thats got a 463 and wants it converted to 606a .for anyone seriously interested in this route it could be holiday and conversion holiday !! [ THIS ALSO GOES FOR V8 OWNERS THAT ARE CONSTANTLY GOING OVERDRASFT TO PAY THE FUEL COSTS !!!!]
rgds hus
Ahh, ok, when I read " no nasty turbo lag" I just assummed turbo lag, but not too nasty, lol. And can see now you say 606na :-)
Yes, huge amounts of heat off the TD's, in those pictures in the Alps you wouldn't want to touch the bonnet of my G, but with clean rads etc, the coolant temp rarely even gets to about 88c, neither do you want to stand by the right hand wing when the oil cooler fan kicks in,,lol.
I think it's fair to say the G300TD's were the first of the G's where the engineers "lost it", as far as an off road vehicle is concerned.
LOL Huss, you fag..... I can not really talk about overheating, as at the last AGM, for the first time my engine temp almost went off the scale!Turned out to be broken fan (courtesy of a 40 tone articulated lorry rolling back into me) and about 100 tons of finest Salisbury plain mud clogging the rad. Not a good mix.
However since its been fixed, no problems at all....... :P
Anyway.... you know you would want a 500.... you know you NEED a 500, shame your not MAN (or stupid) enough to get one!
Spider1V
Brig. Wood & Carpet Brigade (Power Division)
P.s @ Russ280 - PMSL at your post on the B&Q castor set :)
Well Russ you have been spoilt now. You will never be happy with the old 603 again. So many choices. If Shaun makes it up to Yorkshire you can look at his turbo conversion which has the factory inlet manifold on it and looks nice. I like the idea of the non turbo 606, quite simple without too much extra heat to deal with
Shame the 606na never made it into the G. The 3.5 603 was a disaster. I have no doubt, if they had fitted the 606na it would have become a very highly sought after model, probably the ultimate G.
The 606 turbo will have loads more power, but in my opinion power is nothing without control, and the 606 na is just soooooo smooooth. The 606 na has more than enough power for my, and apparently Russ’s needs. I can honestly not see where you would need more when driving a G off road. I am not saying power is bad, I enjoyed driving a 55, but this works for me now.
As far as over heating goes, I replaced everything that bolts on to the engine, new viscous fan, new water pump, new radiator, new heater unit, new pipes..... I have towed a LR 90 on a car trailer for 180miles at 60 mph without any problems, so I cant see it becoming a problem in future.
For me personally the nicest thing about the 606 na is its responsiveness, it feels more like a petrol, and you don’t have the dreaded turbo lag. Second best part must be the sound, even Spider will agree when he hears it, and it is on a standard G exhaust.
It is not the greatest engine ever built, or the most powerful, but considering that the whole job, including replacing lots and lots of unnecessary parts had cost me about £2k, and the engine has done 80k miles, it sure is a cheap fix for a tired diesel G.
(Huss when fitting into a 463 it is quite a job if you intend to keep it as original as possible. It is a lot easier into a 460)
“Yes, huge amounts of heat off the TD's, in those pictures in the Alps you wouldn't want to touch the bonnet of my G, but with clean rads etc, the coolant temp rarely even gets to about 88c, neither do you want to stand by the right hand wing when the oil cooler fan kicks in,,lol.
I think it's fair to say the G300TD's were the first of the G's where the engineers "lost it", as far as an off road vehicle is concerned.”
Maybe you’re doing them an injustice there Mark. Apart from the water issue your post confirms that they were properly engineered from a heat point of view. Factory developed at a cost of many 1,000hrs/euro’s.
Imagine retro fitting one and neglecting say proper air flow to the oil cooler. Recipe for disaster. So a conversion using a 606na = Keep it simple, less is more and all that. Just MHO
Russ
hi guys , i dont want to sound like that geezer with the G500 rabbitting on about his V8. the 606 IS a great engine. a good all rounder. i only rate the 606a cos the power is there when needed. ofcourse off road is slow pace means low rpm's mean the turbo has no function really. but its just reassurance to know that power is there when you need it. hey christo, did you share pics of the engine installed mate ?
as mentioned a friend of mine has the same engine in his lwb 463 which a diesel before hand too. he is not too happy with the power, he runs 33 hankook mts, and has 5.33 which compensate the power loss of the tires.[ but i must admit this bloke wanted a petrol engined G when he was looking for a G, so maybe he has higher expectations ] . another friend had this engine in his lwb 460, but he wasnt happy with the power till he fitted a turbo kit from 606a. now it flies !!
it seems these bl@@dy cypriots have a power fetish....!!!!
enjoy your G leuu !
Theres too many compromises to be made though, usually involving cooling. Most later G's limp home after a day spent in the mud (barring Piggys 400) because the rads are half blocked. I think older G's coped with off roading so much better. Newer G's are just as capable, but they don't live with it so well. Thats why I think the 606na is a great choice, enough power without having huge amounts of heat to get rid of.
The additional power is only for the road anyway, I've yet to see a 300TD or 500 go anywhere a 230 couldn't
@Mark
I still say my high compression 230 was the best 4x4 I have ever owned. If I have ever regretted selling a car it is that one, and if I could, I would buy it back. Unfortunately the guy stuck a 300 petrol into it. (I did get £12k for it so maybe I must shut up)
You can have my 230 for £12k;-]
actually I'm only joking (I think)
mmmmm£12k = tempting
early G's were a bit crude but off road biased. basic, no headaches.... as they have become more modern for road use with all the gizmos added problems have increased, too true.
i agree with the 230 being the gem amongst them all. owning a few myself over the years has also shown this. i will never forget ian and piggy struggling in france one year when fred just walked by the same route !
Hi. I know this a very old post/topic, but still i would like to know what to expect if i dcided to convert a short wheelbase 460G currently with a OM617.931 engine to a OM606.962(VIN# WDB2100252A870305). Needles to say, the 617 is very tired. and there are no 617 turbo diesels in my country. Not even one! Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Mike.in Kenya.
To be fair to the V8's, that was more about driver skill then the model of G. :)
My sixpence worth on this ? Lower engine mounts 30mm ,looksbetter,cools better. Turbo heat ? Good shielding [adapt 310 sprinter one]
Straight thru exhaust system , single box ,get the heat away [ 50% of turbo heat probs are trying to use factory exhaust ]
N/A or turbo ? Many old wifes tales on this ...Turbo need fabricated 90' adapter [easy] DOES not run hot.
Oh ,of course 3 core your rad [52mm] instead of 2 core ,max £200 .
Still worried ?? Fit a/market e/fans.
The famous Axel conversion temp guage does not move even with with a loaded 2 horse box on the back on an Mway bank.
Perhaps a shilligs worth ??
I had a 606 turbo engine with Myna pump, luckily now sold, and I have the manifold and turbo for this 606 na engine, but no thanks, I'd rather keep it as it is. If I want more power I'll buy a 500 again. (And probably sell it again)
this engine might me off use to someone in the north midlands [Yorkshire]
Good engine in 460swb lot of work to add turbo , in our area engine is 350/500 £.Best is 662 turbo same money 97-2000 Musso[Daewoo 99 on] harder to find burt not as hard as G's
Musso without engine scrap value 175/200 £
This one my 1 penny worth
Another 1 p here...never seen P td's so an early one NOT sprinter [D I]
Also ALL musso boxes are litter tremec or bw most of them scrapped from gbox failure
Here is one candidate http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/700-cash-buys-it-1-TO-EXPORT-2-9TD-4x4-mercede...
Hi LEEU, I was reading some old posts about converting a G to diesel and I heard what you said about the cost of using the 606 non turbo engine. Sounds like you have had a few different G's?
Mine is an 1983 w460 LWB 280ge. Would I need a 606 engine and auto gearbox? I think the engine with a manual box is also a good choice. Is the engine from a w124 or is it the later engine from about a 300 estate for example?
I spoke to Axel about his conversion which uses the turbo version. It's too expensive for me an I'm not sure if the turbo fits my car. You said that the 606na is easier to fit a w460 and was about £2k. Did you fit it your self or get someone good to do it?
Please let me know as this will be the decider for selling the car and upgrading to a w463 factory diesel 300 or 350 or converting what I have. I may even get a 463 an convert that.
Thanks
Del
Oops meant to send that to LEEU. Any thoughts anyone seeing as it's out there?
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I’ll leave Christo to reply on that but it’s normally aspirated remember. I did think that given the tight under bonnet space the added heat of a turbo could be an issue.
G Wagen’s and cooling umm