460 tracking and steering damper.

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lynxman
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Hi all can anyone supply the tracking angle for a 460 300 gd on a g plate, i believe it to be 1/16 to 1/8 toe in but need to confirm, also is it possible to purchase an up-graded steering damper for the same vehicle from merc with out any modification (part no. would be great) or non gen  part rom a truck with sucess. all info would be much appreciated. lynxman

Pistonhead
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Re: 460 tracking and steering damper.

Hello lynxman,

Toe in/out is: 0.5mm toe-in to 0.5mm toe-out.  Best set at 0mm or parallel setting.  I tried to look up a conversion to metric for you, but no joy, you may get the conversion to Imperial, from the conversion dial on the tracking gauge.  Reference: the Dunlop gauge. 

I do not know of any generic steering dampers but with the Mercedes Benz damper, should you want to go for a heavy duty (almost twice the price of a standard damper) you can, but this only requires a different mounting bracket.  The standard damper is of 38mm dia. and the h/duty one is 50mm dia.

Standard damper: A 000 463 60 32 - 38mm dia. (W460/461 Chassis)
Possibly H/duty damper: A 000 463 66 32 - 50mm dia.  (W463 Chassis)  Part is not differentiated as H/duty nor is the fitting kit identified; limited information from source).

ADVICE: To double check with dealer before buying and confirm number.

Cheers,

LEEU
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Re: 460 tracking and steering damper.

 Russ280 fitted one, you only need a longer bolt.

lynxman
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Re: 460 tracking and steering damper.

many thanks for all the assistance/advice, best regards lynxman.

montreal
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Re: 460 tracking and steering damper.

Is there an alternative make of the 50mm damper that fits the G? I want to get a new one but want to Heavy duty one. I found a picture of it on an American website that specilises in G parts. Think it was called 4x4 (written in words) or something.
It actually looks like a damper from a w123 or w114 mercedes. Its just a shock absorber  on it's side right?
I tried to move my track rod and drag link ends and they seem fine except for the perished boots which I think I can find. Thanks to Rakesh. Is it the same part number as the 463 one (is this the 50mm one as standard)?

D

Russ280
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Re: 460 tracking and steering damper.

I’ve fitted a Land Rover Discovery II Bilstein damper.
Half the price and way better quality compared to the MB one IMHO.
Russ

gav.helme
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Re: 460 tracking and steering damper.

Hope this helps

This is to clarify the options available on the Steering Dampers. All Dampers have 10mm diameter holes at both ends. Except there are an earlier version of option A) that had an 8mm at one end (NLA) and the brackets need changing as well. The brackets and mountings for each Damper differ from W460/1/3 and from model to model so please enquire with your Chassis Number for more info if you are Upgrading your Damper. Prices and Availability correct as 08.01.12 from MBUK and their Dealers.
Steering Damper

A) A0004636032 38MM DIA £71.50 + VAT at MBUK
STD ON MOST W460’S – W461’S – W463’S ex ALL W461 - W463 CDI’S – MOST W463 V8’S

B) A0004636632 50MM DIA £86.00 + VAT at MBUK
UPGRADE ON ALL W460’S – W461’S – W463’S ex ALL W461 - W463 CDI’S – MOST W463 V8’S

C) A4634630132 50MM DIA £105.00 + VAT at MBUK
STD ON ALL W461 - W463 CDI’S – MOST W463 V8’S

This information is just for reference and as a guide the part should be checked to specific vehicle Chassis Number before ordering and fitment.

Gav

montreal
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Re: 460 tracking and steering damper.

Does anyone have the length of the steering damper? It should be the compressed length please.
I'm just about to ring around to see if anyone has the Discovery 2 Bilsteins in stock to measure the length.
I guess it must be the same if it fits but just want to be sure. The cheapest I have seen is £57.50 ex. vat compared to £86.50 for the 463/uprated 460 part from Mercedes branded. I'm looking for the 50mm one
Bilstein make quality parts (were they the OE manufacturer for the Shocks and steering anyway) . It also looks (from on-line photos) that the Range Rover shocks could be the same as G's. I know there's a bit more to it and I've probably opened a very old can of worms here....................

D

gav.helme
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Re: 460 tracking and steering damper.

Hi

Not sure about the measurements......

but if you have a deal with an MB dealer you should be able to get at least 15% of that retail price and possibly 20% if you plead poverty.

That would put it around £69 mark and without getting on my "soap box" £12 or so difference in my opinion and experience is well worth the extra to get all the benifits....

2 year warranty
Free fitting if a failure occurs
Correct fitment of part
Part engineered for the purpose
European wide warranty
Safety critical steering part
Latest design with flaws designed out or modified
Consequential damage cover
etc etc etc

If the original has lasted this long or even half of the vehicles 27 years the next one will do the same or better, You wont get all this from anyone else, or infact any where near.

I know where i would be spending my money as it also ensures that MB will continue to support the model and provide back up. You try getting that for a 25+ year old anything else from the manufacturer.

You will also be able to get more discount off some of the other items like Shock Absorbers etc

montreal
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Re: 460 tracking and steering damper.

Fair point. I love a haggle!. Who's the best Merc dealer to talk to regarding best price?
PM if you think of one. Sent the pictures to you earlier.

D

gav.helme
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Re: 460 tracking and steering damper.

Where are you in the country?

LEEU
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Re: 460 tracking and steering damper.

 They must have changed the dampers, the last 2 MB dampers I fitted lasted just over a year for the first, and less than 3 months the second. I do have rather big wheels on, and they would not replace. Fitted the same as Russ now, you anly need a longer bolt, but much smoother.

montreal
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Re: 460 tracking and steering damper.

HI Gav, I'm on the Welsh border near Oswestry. I'm thinking about getting the LR damper based on the last post.
Is is a Bilstein after all.

D

Stew-Em
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Re: 460 tracking and steering damper.

Just to add to this thread ... I purchased a standard steering damper last year - year later (6,000 miles) needed to replace. Phoned parts at Merc Sheffield and was put through to Services as advised 'under warranty'. Anyway, I had no invoice and the parts department couldn't find anything so after a week I went to purchase a new one "Hang on, surely you must have a financial record?" Anyway the end result was confirmation that I had purchased from them and after confiming the damper was kaput they replaced free of charge. Service was first rate and this is the first time my '87 300GD (since my ownership) has experienced the inside of a Merc garage.Would still be better if heavier duty version available, notes on Bilstein would be good...

Russ280
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Re: 460 tracking and steering damper.

There’s a guy on P3 who is a bit of a suspension guru. He has had a new std MB damper tested on a rig (Koni I think) which measures how it performs.

Pretty random results. It works OK then once it’s stressed it stops, then it works again. This matches my observations and experience. They don’t just wear out their function is pretty random. The one I threw away had about 10k miles on it and when I removed it it actually felt pretty tight. People who say that they’ve had one on for a gazzilion miles and they are fine don’t understand suspension.

Don’t waste your money. They are junk, simple as.

The Bilstein, even if it doesn’t last improves steering feel (how is that possible on something that has suspension technology based Fred Flintstones truck?!) and has consistent performance.

Russ

gav.helme
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Re: 460 tracking and steering damper.

Hi Russ

I take your point on board and would add that you also probably know far more about suspension set up than i ever will, never mind a guru.

As per Stew's post however the MB item should be covered under warranty and the replacement fitted FOC if it fails through the dealer network.

Leeu, again i take your advice but would add that any manufacturer would refuse warranty if the vehicle has been modified extensively from standard i.e larger than standard wheels and tyres, however the only one i have known to be declined was a damper that was proved had been fitted the wrong way around, hence stressing it not how it was designed?

I have however never been able to ascertain on WIS a correct fitting direction though but will stand corrected!! and may be obvious as its a good few years since i have had to swop one.

I would assume that another major influence on its durability would be the overall condition of the vehicle and particularly the suspension and tyres etc.Worn bushes and steering arms etc would have some bearing and on most 460 G's and alot of 463's will be there due to mileage or age no matter how cared for the vehicle?

I guess this is down to personel preference and usage i.e milage and on road, off road, extreme or overland use, where both durability and attrition values far outway the benifit of free replacement at an MB dealer workshop?
I think MB state on WIS that 100 off road miles equates to either 1000 or 10000 on road miles, can't remember which but it makes you think either way.

I guess it still does not answer why in your experiences the Bilstein LR option would out perform in most areas?

Gav

Russ280
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Re: 460 tracking and steering damper.

Gav,

Sorry if you thought that little dig was directed at you, it certainly wasn’t meant to be

I completely agree with your comments about MB’s support for older vehicles it is amazing. BTW if you are lucky enough to find a guy in the parts dept. who understands G Wagens you are made! There is such a person in Shrewsbury and I have always received excellent service from them.

On the subject of the MB damper (made by Stablis?) I stick with my comments. Don’t waste your money.

Who knows why! To figure that out you would need access to some pretty expensive test rigs and serious men in white coats to compare the resistance over the full travel and to monitor how they performed when stressed.

It could be as simple as gas vs oil technology. My symptoms were random. I didn’t have a constant problem. A shudder would appear mid right hand bend if you hit a bump, but not always. Once the shudder started it stayed until maybe the next day and then it would be OK again. Suggests to me that maybe the oil heated up and lost some of it’s damping effect.

The Bilstein gives consistent performance and has smoothed things out even at very low speeds. This has shown up a problem that I didn’t even know I had with the MB damper. Of course these things deteriorate over a period of time and you get used to minor issues.

As I said who knows how long it will last but Bilstein is a quality brand and even if it fails after 10k miles I’ll still replace it with another Bilstein.

Russ

Russ

gav.helme
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Re: 460 tracking and steering damper.

Russ

Not at all everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and it will take a little more upset me :)

I am the first to pull the MB network up for its lack of interest in the product, even after 25 years it still makes me frustrated to be a part of it
when it could be so much better very easily.

But like you say there are good people out there that are interested, like myself, its just finding them!!!

That is what this forum is for, so we can put our own points across and let everyone take from it what they want

Gav