Which is better off-road 460 or 463?

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John757
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I have been pondering this question.. If the 463 is better more refined on road is the 460 better off-road ?
diesel_jim
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Re: Which is better off-road 460 or 463?

The axles are pretty much identical aren't they? the 463 might be slightly wider track (same as a 461?) and they both have diffllocks,so the only thing that could make a difference is the spring ratings/damper lengths, giving more flexible axle travel.

 

One other thing to consider is weight.... the 463 with all its bells and whistles will weigh more than a basic 460 with nothing in it (although not a huge difference I suppose, not like comparing a bare 460 "van" to a LWB 463 G63 with leather everything)

O/T.. when I finished building my last Td5 90, I did some byways around my area, one is a nice rocky/muddy uphill with lots of axle twisting.

 

My 110 (also Td5), station wagon, Hd chassis, full external cage, quite lardy, although does have ARB axle lockers front & back, would make the climb but if it was wet needed a bit of rocking back & forward to get over some of the big humps, even with the lockers in.

 

The 90, which I built as a military lookalike soft top, had nothing in it apart from a pair of front seats and a toolbox! it just walked up the same slope. no lockers, similar power, same suspension setup. same tyres (the ones off of the 110 actually)

Weight makes a helluva difference.

jaymanek
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Re: Which is better off-road 460 or 463?

Surely its the later engines that will provide more torque that the earlier models, this must be the biggest factor..

 

prwales
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Re: Which is better off-road 460 or 463?

there's nothing in it

mark
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Re: Which is better off-road 460 or 463?

Agree, nothing in it, although 460's and earlier 463 live with it better as theres less fancy nonsense to get caked in mud.

Pistonhead
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Re: Which is better off-road 460 or 463?

Nothing in it. Ultimately it comes down to grip and offroad tyre choice; having more torque matters not if grip is lost.

axel
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Re: Which is better off-road 460 or 463?
Drive from one side of the desert to the other . 460 with a 617 diesel engine very little to go wrong . On the Salisbury plain off road day we did there were 4 g wagens X2 463 and X2 460 Two vehicles went home on recovery trucks Both were the 463 models getting water in the works See marks comment .
G-Restorations
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Re: Which is better off-road 460 or 463?

W460 SWB with no arches with a decent diesel would be my weapon of choice less to break/get wet/seize up or knock off.

peter perfect
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Re: Which is better off-road 460 or 463?
Both the same..success will depend on the driver
fcp
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Re: Which is better off-road 460 or 463?

I'm about to put a set of 463 Axles on a 460 SWB chassis so I'll let you know wink

Russ280
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Re: Which is better off-road 460 or 463?

Nothing in it.

As PP says it’s all down to the driver assuming you’re comparing SWB or LWB and tyres like for like.

Having said that my 460 would always scrabble for grip on a particular hairpin track when towing a 2 tonne boat (that was in 4wd. it wouldn’t make it in 2wd), the 463 without the centre diff locked in the exact same situation copes with zero drama. So there are subtle differences.

diesel_jim
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Re: Which is better off-road 460 or 463?

fcp wrote:

I'm about to put a set of 463 Axles on a 460 SWB chassis so I'll let you know wink

 

 

Does the front propshaft spin opposite direction on a 463 vs. a 460?  or are you going to swap the diff over?

fcp
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Re: Which is better off-road 460 or 463?

Really? Oh-oh! surprise

 

...fortunately I have the VG150 463 transfer box too laugh

 

I've heard anecdotes about people just swapping the axles.. I'm not sure that anyone actually has made the mistake.. it would be funny to see though! 'go-on... give it some welly!'

Pistonhead
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Re: Which is better off-road 460 or 463?

The W463 has the front and rear propshafts from transfer box turning in the same direction of rotation; it is the W460 that has the propshaft turning differently for front and rear.

bigblock
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Re: Which is better off-road 460 or 463?

As already mentioned there is not much between a 460 and 463 off road.

However if you want to get  a little bit technical then the permanent four wheel drive of the 463 with open centre  diff does offer advantages over the 2wd/4wd selectable drivetrain of the 460.

With the 463 permanent  fourwheel drive is always available should you encounter slippy conditions unexpectedly and the turning radius of the 463 is much less that the 460 in 4wd because it has a selectable open centre diff.  This is probably the only area in which the 463 drivetrain is superior to the 460.

With regard to diff locks I would say that the 460 has a better system because you can choose which diff to lock unlike the 463 diffs which have to be locked in sequence. I would also say that the manual knobs instead of the switches seem to engage the diffs faster, i have always found the 463 quite slow to lock the diffs.

The 460 is less complex and probably more reliable in extreme offroad situations although my personal preference offroad is for an automatic gearbox which is is standard on the 463 but quite a rare option on the 460. 

I think overall it just come down to price with the 460 being cheaper than the 463, although if you were serious about a G for offroading then then a 461 would be my choice which gives you the best of both worlds.  

 

John757
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Re: Which is better off-road 460 or 463?
Thanks for info .. I had no idea my auto 460 SWB was a rarity.. Nice to know! Has anyone any idea of the numbers of various classic G Wagens ON the uk Roads ( and OFF !!) ?? John
fcp
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Re: Which is better off-road 460 or 463?

bigblock wrote:

As already mentioned there is not much between a 460 and 463 off road.

The 460 is less complex and probably more reliable in extreme offroad situations although my personal preference offroad is for an automatic gearbox which is is standard on the 463 but quite a rare option on the 460. 

I think overall it just come down to price with the 460 being cheaper than the 463, although if you were serious about a G for offroading then then a 461 would be my choice which gives you the best of both worlds.  

One thing that is unquestionably better about the 463 drivetrain is the strength of the transfer case (rated at 1500Nm vs the 800 of the VG80).

I think I'm also right saying that the 460 CVs and axle shafts are considered a weak point vs the 463s (you can buy billet upgrades from RCV http://www.rcvperformance.com/product-details.aspx?sku=2628-1762 )

Agree re. complexity in general. I'm retaining manual lockers on my swap.

JASONGDS
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Re: Which is better off-road 460 or 463?

If its slippy 463 diff locks go straight in , if there isn't any scope for a wheel to slip they do seem to take a long time, presume axle end accuactor the same in 460/461/463?

fcp
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Re: Which is better off-road 460 or 463?

JASONGDS wrote:

If its slippy 463 diff locks go straight in , if there isn't any scope for a wheel to slip they do seem to take a long time, presume axle end accuactor the same in 460/461/463?

They are. Centre lock on the TC neweds some fettling to modify electric/vac on the 150 but otherwise drop-in switch

Spider1V
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Re: Which is better off-road 460 or 463?

I have a 463 and find that if I have not engaged the diffs for a while (a few months) they can take a while to come in, especially the front ones, however now once a month I pop across a rough piece of ground and engage them all, now they tend to drop in much quicker.

I have also noticed that with the 463 perm 4 wheel drive I can make it across a number of places that a 460 would have to engage their diffs - parts of the last Dent trip and the time I took my G around the MB test track down at Brooklands - much to the disdain of the MB driver laugh . ( He said we always have to engage the diffs on this hill, so I did not and we just went up the hill)

So back to the question in hand which is better? I would say on balance they are both excellent compared to the other manufactures for an 'out of the box' capability and offer the user the ability to choose which they want. Though I understand that the new G's you can only engage the diffs in low range now.

Spider1V

Grendle
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Re: Which is better off-road 460 or 463?

 Hi Chaps,

     Interesting question. I've been pondering the same as I need to lose a G!

   I have a SWB 460 GD300 Manual 1983 and a LWB 463 300GE Auto 1991. So I have both extremes as it were.

Add to this the 460 has MT's,rock sliders no spats and I don't mind the odd scratch and or dent, while  the 463 has AT's and is very shinny with lots of wood and leather.

Now as a standard truck both G's are very capable.

I have seriously off roaded the 460 and have only been winched once which was to avoid roof damage rather than being stuck. Not having spats and having 235's fitted with the side strakes on a G mean the body work rarely touches rocks or trees so contact isn't an issue. I've seen lots of damage to LR's, RR and Paj's , while the G hasn't picked up a scratch.

The 463 isn't off roaded to the same extent, but I have Green Laned from north to south Wales just taking what comes and a couple of times I have been in the oh dear this isn't good situation, but the G with AT's has never struggled and I've hardly ever resorted to even the Centre lock.

As for Auto v Manual I like Manual because going down very steep slopes you know you're in low range first gear, while in the 463 operation of the braking function 2B seems to be hit and miss as it can takes time to engage leading to extreme pucker factor and the desire to apply the brakes at really the wrong time!

So I don't know which is best, but I know I'll never take the 463 on most the lanes around me because of body work damage and the LWB wouldn't get round the corners.

What G would I like?.............A 461 LWB which has the best features of both!

Mate of mine has just acquired a 461 SWB Van with Rear windows.......nice!

 

Spider1V
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Re: Which is better off-road 460 or 463?

Hi Grendle,

Nice write up. Just out of interest do you not 'hard core' the 463 because it is still in good condition? If both were in the same condition would you choose the 463?

Spider1V

Stew-Em
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Re: Which is better off-road 460 or 463?

John,

Answer to your question (or any car for that matter) can be found here... Need to reset the search, but only 60 of mine on the road (64 sorn'ed) and going down each year...

https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/mercedes_300_gd_m4

Cheers,

Stewart

 

diesel_jim
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Re: Which is better off-road 460 or 463?

Spider1V wrote:

 

Nice write up. Just out of interest do you not 'hard core' the 463 because it is still in good condition? If both were in the same condition would you choose the 463?

Spider1V

 

 

Funnily enough, I feel the same way about my 110 vs. the (now sold) 90.... as the 90 was built to be a bit rough around the edges, I didn't mind driving through overgrown byways etc, whereas the 110 is shiny (and scratched a bit) but I don't want to trash it so never really gave it the "all" through the rough stuff.

 

Side by side, I think maybe there wouldn't be much difference.

peter perfect
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Re: Which is better off-road 460 or 463?
@fcp...cv joints are a Weak point If you have front diff in and have full lock on..ive Spent quite a few years off roading in g competatively, in a std g wagen and never had issues..but stick a 560 v8 in a 460 and rev the love spuds out of it and half shafts will fail to.
fcp
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Re: Which is better off-road 460 or 463?

Thatg's interesting to get a 1st hand account. I'm going to switch the CVs in my new axles for the RCV ones when I rebuild them. AFAIK though there aren't any uprated shafts available for the 463 so I guess they don't fail to the same extent.

Whart sort of competion were you involved with?

This truck is going to be going desert rallying (assuming that ebola doesn't make Africa a no go zone next year!) - Always keen to drawn on the experience and knowledge of others who have been-there etc.