Unserseal my 280GE - Tips & Adivce

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tase
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Hi

 

I want to underseal the entire underneath of my 280 ge 

 

I am thinking to do this myself but of course never have done before!

 

Any advice anyone! Is it an easy job! what product's should I use!

 

Or should I just let a professional do it! If so who do you guy use/recommenced

 

What is the price for a professional ? any companies in or around Surrey or London!

 

Thank you in advance :)

prwales
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Re: Unserseal my 280GE - Tips & Adivce

use waxoyl or tetrosyl rather than an under-seal, and for ease of application use the black stuff as its easier to see where you have spayed

Nick123
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Re: Unserseal my 280GE - Tips & Adivce

As per PRW. I use Black Waxoyl as it makes it easier to see where you've been.

Invest in a 2.5HP compressor from Screwfix/MachineMart and warm the Waxoyl before spraying in a Bain Marie (cf. Mrs. Beeton/Delia Smith) I do this outside on an electric two ring hob rather than inside on the kitchen cooker.

It is worth stripping off as much as possible from the vehicle to allow you to get inside as many nooks and crannies - and they are myriad - as possible Remember the front lip of the bonnet, the wheel-arches and inside the rear lights and be liberal around the shock mounts. It is a sensible precaution to keep slippery Waxoyl off the brake disc and pad areas. I use plastic carrier bags (5p from any reputable Supermarket or free from the cupboard under the sink in any pensioner's home) to mask off any sensitive areas. Waxoyl, especially warmed and thin Waxoyl, drifts everywhere.

It helps to put down a cheapo tarpaulin to save messing up the ground and then drive the vehicle up onto a couple of big lumps of wood to allow you to roll around underneath.

 It is a filthy job but very easy to do and pays huge dividends in the longevity of the vehicle.

Good luck with it.

Arnie
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Re: Unserseal my 280GE - Tips & Adivce

Waxoyl is fine, but it is not very durable in heavily exposed areas, such as wheel arches. I would use Dinitrol ML 3125

https://dinitrol.co.uk/ClassicCar.aspx

Waxoyl is a mix of oil and wax and takes longer to dry, but never goes hard. That's one of it's advantages, though and used in the less exposed areas, it's great. The Dinitrol waxes harden more and are more durable,  as they leave a thicker coating, containig rust inhibitors. Dinitrol also resist heat, so you can also coat engine components. In particular, dinitrol is good on brake lines, fuel pumps etc.

All of these 'waxes' can be thinned with white spirit to apply either by brush or spray-gun. White spirit will also dissolve them for easy wiping or removal. A good jet-washing or steam-clean is best done before-hand, as you will find a lot of mud and dirt in the nooks and crannies.

I think that this is a job for a warm summer day, when the vehicle is totally dry, as these waxes will not go on well if the surfaces are all wet. Also, warmer temperatures will make application much easier as then you don't need to warm the wax, as mentioned above, and/or use less white spirit for thinning.

The G is tall enough to be able to crawl underneath to apply these products, but have some goggles and a hat. Using a spray-gun is a lot easier, although you will need a compressor kit, but then also have a face-mask, as atomised wax/white-spirit is not very nice to breath in. There are also long-hose injectors available to reach into box-sections, many-of which have plastic caps for access, but these do require a compressor. If using a paint-type spray gun, get one with a gravity feed, as the suction types will leak (from the breather hole in the can) when you tilt the gun at certain angles to reach underneath the car.

It's a very easy job, but if you don't fancy it., many garages can do it for you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Howard Green
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Re: Unserseal my 280GE - Tips & Adivce

 

 

I purchased one of the Land Rover kits from Rejel. Give Rejel a call and ask for Peter, he will talk you through all the products . Very helpful chap. http://www.rejel.com/rejel-store/land-rover-kits/din01lr.aspx

tase
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Re: Unserseal my 280GE - Tips & Adivce

WOW - You guy's are FANTASTIC - Things are much clearer now :) yes

I think then like you say warmer summer's day and mean time Jet spray / wash clean the underside every so often to get it as clean as possible until then.

Got some other thing's to do until then like Springs / Struts / Shocks etc so will get on with these still.

 

Thanks again everyone.

tase
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Re: Unserseal my 280GE - Tips & Adivce

Arnie / Howard

 

Which is best buy?

 

https://dinitrol.co.uk/Products/RustProofingKits.aspx

Arnie
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Re: Unserseal my 280GE - Tips & Adivce

I just use ML 3125 on exposed parts and waxoyl on inside of the chassis, transmission, door cavities, bonnet etc.

Of the listed kits, perhaps no 1 / 2

Note that ML 3125 is brown wax, perhaps coloured like that  to disguise rust. If your chassis is in good condition and you want a clear wax, then one of the other kits will do it.

I probably would not go for the 'Stone. Chip' kit as I think that product is quite permanent when applied.

Most important thing is a good air compressor, and note that the supplied gun is OK, but the application from it is rather thick and non uniform, so dilute a little and apply in warm whether

tase
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Re: Unserseal my 280GE - Tips & Adivce

OK Thank you Arsnie

Maybe a silly question but why would you not want something more permanent? 

I thought that was the aim?

Arnie
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Re: Unserseal my 280GE - Tips & Adivce

Maybe you do want something more permanent?  It's a question of preference. I like to be able to clean and remove any applied coating when it looks worn and dirty and to re-coat. Many of these more 'permanent' coatings  are a bitumen-like underseal ,which I think can look messy and may even trap  moisture.

In the old days, I remember that after applying some of these types of coating to cars that had a propensity to rust, the area would look great, but behind the thick coating, the metal would still rust away, as the paint in-between peeled away.

The body of the  G - at least the 463 version -  is actually coated with a PVC underseal, which admittedly does not cover everything and is a little thin in areas, but I think a thick wax coating is enough to protect it,

Additionally, the parts that really suffer, like the spring mounts, springs, shock absorbers, prop-shafts, , body mounts, anti-roll-bars, axles and other chassis components, won't take too well to a thick, bituminous, underseal.

It's up to you. If you have bodywork that is in good condition, then a removable wax coating doesn't hide anything, but I would be wary if I were to buy a G that had been completely 'undersealed' not knowing what it was hiding.

 

 

Having said all that, the Dinitrol stone chip appears to be some type of plastic (polymer) coating (not bitumen-based):

DINITROL 445 BLACK STONE CHIP  1Litre CAN (with Schutz style screw cap)

Black polymer based, permanently elastic anti-stone chip product,which protects against corrosion. It is sound deadening and can be overpainted. does not contain aggressive solvents such as chlorinated hydrocarbons and will not attack PVC coatings.

The technical data sheet (https://dinitrol.co.uk/Portals/0/TDS%20DIN%20440%20445%20APR%202014.pdf ) advises that all surfaces where applied must be thoroughly clean and dry and that any smooth painted surface should be first abraded to ensure that the product sticks.That doesn't sound good to me: if it doesn't stick you may have areas that allow in moisture and which you won't see.. Removal requires nitrocellulose thinner, which will dissolve practically anything.

 

 

Russ280
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Re: Unserseal my 280GE - Tips & Adivce

Personally I don't like Dinitrol. They like to give the impression it's some sort of hi tech product IMHO it's just bitumen which doesn't stay wax like. It sets rock hard.And as Arnie says that just traps moisture, I've used it and regret it.


I'd rather use a waxoyl type product which you can pressure wash off, check everything is ok and re apply. Just my preference.
 

tase
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Re: Unserseal my 280GE - Tips & Adivce

Thank you guys

A wealth of knowledge and I've learned a lot.

 

:)

prwales
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Re: Unserseal my 280GE - Tips & Adivce

completely agree about not using an underseal, this has a bad rep in our moist UK climate

scouse g
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Re: Unserseal my 280GE - Tips & Adivce

Russ280 wrote:

Personally I don't like Dinitrol. They like to give the impression it's some sort of hi tech product IMHO it's just bitumen which doesn't stay wax like. It sets rock hard.And as Arnie says that just traps moisture, I've used it and regret it.


I'd rather use a waxoyl type product which you can pressure wash off, check everything is ok and re apply. Just my preference.
 

 

I agree, spent many hours under g's and other cars, rust can still track under stonechip and you have to scratch the stonechip off, treat rusted areas then re-apply, we live on an island with mainly westerly winds  dumping rain that come from the atlantic ocean side which is full of salt water its not a permanent fix.......

tase
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Re: Unserseal my 280GE - Tips & Adivce

Last question - I think?

If I find rust should I use a rust converter first before Waxoyl or Dinitrol?

Russ280
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Re: Unserseal my 280GE - Tips & Adivce

tase wrote:

Last question - I think?

If I find rust should I use a rust converter first before Waxoyl or Dinitrol?

 

Yes, or even better remove it.

 
Have a look at rust.co.uk
 
I like the 2 pack epoxy paint, sets way harder than normal paint and then cover it in wax
Arnie
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Re: Unserseal my 280GE - Tips & Adivce

tase wrote:

Last question - I think?

If I find rust should I use a rust converter first before Waxoyl or Dinitrol?

Best to scrape-off as much loose rust as you can find. Then, I like to use 'Metal-Prep/Ready' to convert any remaining rust and POR-15 paint on top. POR-15 is a super-tough urethane paint that cures by absorbing moisture from the air. It becomes rock-solid over-night  (obtainable from http://www.frost.co.uk/ ).  Don't forget the under-sides of the spring-mount turrets and shock absorber mounts.

What you do depends on how much time you have and how far you want to go. A full job would involve dismantling the suspension, removing the springs, etc, and treating and painting all the parts before re-assembly and final waxing.

A quick job is steam-clean, remove loose rust, spray with rust converter, re-paint where  you can reach and then coat with wax.

As mentioned, I would not use any underseal or stone-chip type product, but I find the Dinitrol waxes (those that are white-spirit soluble) to be good.

 

 

 

scouse g
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Re: Unserseal my 280GE - Tips & Adivce
mgrays
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Re: Unserseal my 280GE - Tips & Adivce

I saw those tools 3 years ago at Houston oil show.. look good but £310 for your starter kit..

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/391370115546?adgroupid=13936810266&hlpht=true&hlpv=2&rlsatarget=pla-144478457826&adtype=pla&ff3=1&lpid=122&poi=&ul_noapp=true&limghlpsr=true&ff19=0&googleloc=9046831&device=c&chn=ps&campaignid=220881786&crdt=0&ff12=67&ff11=ICEP3.0.0-L&ff14=122&viphx=1&ops=true&ff13=80

I use a couple of air powered needle guns . it will take off the underseal where it has been undercut by water/corrosion.

Cycle for me under cars is;

Pressure wash

strip bumpers/liners/lights/door trims

Re pressure wash

Use coarse builders brush to clean remaining mud

Use blunt 14" screwdriver to poke and chip

Then needle gun visible rust .. and chase that rust under the underseal (the G stuff is as bad as any underseal just harder to remove). Finish with a small hammer and 4" long chiesel to get to odd corners.

Rust converter of some type (Fe-1-2-3 or Dinotrol RC900) - I even inject to sills/doors if feeling good.. but flush tools as it eats aluminum/brass or something in the guns..

2 coats of 2 pack polyurethane water proof paint e.g. Jotamastic 88 repair packs under car, Lechlars on top of car Coat with hammerite of a colour code if not overcoated or it matters.

Coat with Bilt Hammer body wax .. it was Dinotrol 3120 or ML but moved on.. moved on from Waxoyl about 12 years ago

Coat with Bilt Hammer UB (heavier bodied) .. or better Dinotrol 4140 for high impact areas

Then inspect and tidy every autumn before the salt gets on the roads.. oh do any of this mid summer so car is salt free.

I have a pressure vessel injector gun from Rustbusters ..best thing .. pl;us a Schultz gun for underseal - put them all in a bucket of boiling water for 15 mins and cut underseal with white spirits to make it even thinner. A real messy job but worth it.

tase
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Re: Unserseal my 280GE - Tips & Adivce

You guys are amazingsmileyyes

tase
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Re: Unserseal my 280GE - Tips & Adivce

Russ280 wrote:

tase wrote:

Last question - I think?

If I find rust should I use a rust converter first before Waxoyl or Dinitrol?

 

Yes, or even better remove it.

 
Have a look at rust.co.uk
 
I like the 2 pack epoxy paint, sets way harder than normal paint and then cover it in wax

 

Thanks Rus280 - Is it the Epoxy Mastic or 412 in which you speak? 

Russ280
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Re: Unserseal my 280GE - Tips & Adivce

It's the Epoxy Mastic 121.
Impressive stuff.