steering damper

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phileas
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Hi All,

I've finally managed to get my G back on the road again after a long period in storage. Its got the shakes again and I think that the steering damper is on its way out (having done all the other things - wheel balance/alignment, etc). I replaced the last one about 35-40000km ago.

If I remember correctly someone once said that one can buy an Old Man EMU Disco 2 HD damper and convert it relatively easily to fit a G. Is this true?.......if so, what needs to be modified in order to fit it to the G? I only ask, as I have the heavy duty MB version on my car, but have never really been happy with it as I drive on larger 32" diameter/285mm width tyres.

All advice, as always, appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Ph

hus55
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Re: steering damper

hi ph. no long time no speak....[did you fit the barndoors yet ?]

 

what size tires are you running ? i fitted a return to centre damper on my cabrio. and fitting one on my friends 606a conversion too. it works really well. 

 

heres the link. cheap, powerful and amazingly brings the steering back to centre effortlessly. some fine tuning needed if the spring is not in centre position. but loosen the allen key bolts re adjust and test until the G does not pull...you may need to fabricate an arm but you'll know better when you see pics. will post tonight..;)

heres a video

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FownZ2a1qM

 

heres a link  , shop around ofcourse

 

http://www.johncraddockltd.co.uk/land-rover-parts/tf835-terrafirma-retur...

 

 

 

rgds hus

Howard Green
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Re: steering damper

The terraferma looks an interesting alternative to the  Merc unit.

Phileas, I think the Old man unit is a suggestion Russ installed  on his G. From memory it was off a Disco 2.

 

Russ280
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Re: steering damper

It was a Discovery 2 Bilstein. More or less a  direct replacement. IMHO way better than the oem MB fitment.

hus55
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Re: steering damper

russ's option maybe better for standard tires....

 

35" tires an up i reckon the terrafirma is much more adeqaute. the MB original is lousy !

 

rgds hus

hus55
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Re: steering damper
morning ph。hope this helps. lhd bracket is a bit of a bodge. will sort it out one day..
phileas
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Re: steering damper

Thanks for your input chaps. I'll let you know what I end up doing. I'm probably leaning toward the Terrafirma option as I'm only running 32" tyres.

phileas
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Re: steering damper

Hus, no I haven't fitted the barn doors yet as have had a lot of family stuff going on. will post when i finally get it done. must enjoy the g on the road now as i had is laid up for almost 15 months! time flies

phileas
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Re: steering damper

Further to my last, have managed to track down an Old Man Emu Disco 2 damper and bought that. Hope it won't be too difficult to fit.

Ph

hus55
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Re: steering damper
hi ph.i think you made the right decision. please post pixs when you get the damper on.please could you email me pixs of your G. it was a grand looking G. i was talkig to a friend of mine about it but couldn't find pics of it. did you change the front seats too if i am not mistaken.. rgds hus
consur
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Re: steering damper

Ph. Are you getting this work done by Simon at Autostore?  I'll be dropping in there next week and would be interested to see it.   I'm on my third or fourth MB damper and have to agree that they're not up to much. 

Regarding the comment about self-centering.  I believe this is adjustable on the steering box, certainly I had mine improved /increased by this means on my 300GEL.  (by Terry at C&V Autos - guess you are familiar with them).

G

JASONGDS
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Re: steering damper

Have you been using the much bigger 461 steering damper? Or the smaller cheaper 460/463 item?
 

consur
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Re: steering damper

Definitely the 463 one.  Quite thin and pathetic looking. I don't have the paperwork to hand but I think it cost about £60.  Is the 461 beefed up and is it directly interchangeable?  It takes about two minutes to change so it's no hardship, it's just the feeling, as Phileas implies, that one would rather have something that feels properly up to the task rather than something that's patently inferior.

JASONGDS
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Re: steering damper

Its about 40-  50% bigger? Around £90 I think , interchangeable though you do have to purchase a little bracket ( not expensive) that is part of the kit. Unless you running vastly oversized tyres I think that item fine, never ever given any steering shimmy ( touch wood) though I do stick to standard wheel/yre  combination.

gav.helme
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Re: steering damper

Posted this a while ago...prices have risen a little...

This is to clarify the options available on the Steering Dampers. All Dampers have 10mm diameter holes at both ends. Except there are an earlier version of option A) that had an 8mm at one end (NLA) and the brackets need changing as well. The brackets and mountings for each Damper differ from W460/1/3 and from model to model so please enquire with your Chassis Number for more info if you are Upgrading your Damper. Prices and Availability correct as 24.10.13 from MBUK and their Dealers.

Steering Damper

A0004636032 38MM DIA £58.50 + VAT at MBUK

STD ON MOST W460’S – W461’S – W463’S ex ALL W461 - W463 CDI’S – MOST W463 V8’S

A0004636632 50MM DIA £94.50 + VAT at MBUK

UPGRADE ON ALL W460’S – W461’S – W463’S ex ALL W461 - W463 CDI’S – MOST W463 V8’S

A4634630132 50MM DIA £116.00 + VAT at MBUK

STD ON ALL W461 - W463 CDI’S – MOST W463 V8’S

This information is just for reference and as a guide the part should be checked to specific vehicle Chassis Number before ordering and fitment.

phileas
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Re: steering damper

So here is the update.....

 

Pictures will follow once I figure out how to download them from my new camera.

 

I bought the Old Man EMU steering damper for the Disco 2. Fit wasn't straight forward but not overly difficult once figured out.

 

1. The standard OME steering damper has a very large protector sleeve over the ram end. This has to be removed (with a grinder!) in order to fit otherwise it will rub against the chassis. My 463 is a LHD, so this might not apply to RHD models.

2. The Disco has 10mm holes, whereas the 463 uses 8mm dimensions in stead. Two sets of spacer sleeves have to be made up to fit into the bushes on the steering damper. We had two stainless steel ones made up at a local workshop and they fitted superbly snug once done.

After the above has been done, it is a straight replace/fit of the standard HD MB unit. That's it.

 

The result is staggering: MUCH MUCH better, smoother and absolutely no shakes at all! Am very pleased with it.

The OME unit is manufactured in Australia and is weighted 50/50, so works perfectly for the G (a word of warning here, not every steering damper is weighted to damp in both directions equally, so caution must be taken when buying a non-standard item). It wasn't the cheapest option (about £120 delivered), but the quality of the component really shines measured against the old one (which was admittedly well gone, but to be fair I never liked the standard MB part).

As mentioned, will post the photos soon.

 

Hope that helps,

Ph

 

 

hus55
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Re: steering damper

sounds good to me ph !! i wonder if my damper is weighted 50/50 ?? how could i find out...

 

look forward to pics and a link of the damper my friend

 

rgds hus

mud
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Re: steering damper

Can anyone advise if this info also applies to a left hand drive 463 please? I think I have the same issue. 

Thanks

Howard Green
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Re: steering damper

As Phileas states in his email his truck is left hand drive.

phileas
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Re: steering damper

hi mud and hus,

I will post pics soon. mud, yes as howard stated, mine is a lhd 463 so you'd have to remove the sleeve. hus, in the literature that came with your damper it should say what the directional damper rating is.

reverting soon,

ph

phileas
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Re: steering damper

Finally got the pics on my computer.

The're in a bit of a mish-mash order but I'll try to explain what they are:

g steering damper  - this is the original item side-by-side the Old Man Emu Disco 2 replacement. As you can see there is a very large sleeve around the OME one which needed to be removed because it would otherwise rub against the chassis. On the MB one you can see how slim the end is on the strut end.

G steering damper 2 - This shows what the OME looks like once the 'protector' has been removed and repainted.

G steering damper 5 - The MB damper uses an M8 bolt to attach it to the chassis/steering gear. LR uses M10 bolt pattern. We had stainless steel bushses made up to fit into the OME damper ends. They were a tight fit and needed a press to get them in.

g steering damper 3 - Once the sleeve was removed and bushes fitted, it was simply a matter of bolting it in place

++

The difference is staggering: I have no steering shake whatsoever at ANY speeds. The car drives as it should (even with my slightly larger than stock wheels and 2" lifted springs). Much, much, better than the original. Lets hope it lasts a little longer too.......

Ph

 

hus55
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Re: steering damper

phileas wrote:

hi mud and hus,

I will post pics soon. mud, yes as howard stated, mine is a lhd 463 so you'd have to remove the sleeve. hus, in the literature that came with your damper it should say what the directional damper rating is.

reverting soon,

ph

 

 

will check the papers that were in the box. i hope i havent checked them

 

rgds hus

KevinStuttgart
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Re: steering damper

 Thanks for the information on the steering damper upgrade, I fitted the 50mm diameter Mercedes damper prior to driving the 350 mile round trip for the committee meeting. The difference was unbelievable, my old damper did not have any visible leaks and still felt tight to move but clearly not up to the job. Thanks guys.

cox.adrian
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Re: steering damper

   thanks for the tip kevin as my skinny damper is over 10 years old

   and now i have much more heavy wheels

   i just orderd the 50mm dampersmiley 

markhowes
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Re: steering damper

Do you have the part number for that 50mm damper?

 

cox.adrian
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Re: steering damper

    hi mark part number 0004636632

markhowes
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Re: steering damper

Now in possession of uprated 50mm MB steering damper for my 463.

Having crawled underneath it looks, to me, like a pretty straightforward "off with the old (skinny damper) and on with the new" type job. There don't appear to be any adjustments available so am I right in thinking that this is a very straightforward job that anyone should be able to tackle?

Or have I got that wrong and should only be trusted to a professional?

 

Pistonhead
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Re: steering damper

"Easy-peasy"; just make sure you fit the damper as you take it off i.e. the strut at the wheel side and damper body to the diff. side. They can be wrongly fitted the other way around. 

markhowes
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Re: steering damper

Thanks "Pro"

Just off to get some nice shiny new nuts and bolts from MB to do the job.

 

jhw.
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Re: steering damper

Certainly food for thought, I have a 230ge that has the dreaded steering vibrations around 45-50mph.
Think I'm going to end up going with the original merc items as the rest of the car is totally standard.

markhowes
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Re: steering damper

I shall report back here on effect of new 50mm MB damper once fitted - unfortunately MB dealer does not carry the necessary bolts in stock so won't get them until Friday.

For me less a problem of vibration (although there is some) more a question of G wandering a bit especially when experiencing changes of road camber.

I did have more vibration - 50 mph - 55 mph but those were almost eliminated by having the front wheels re-balanced. Didn't cost much and definitely worth a try.

 

 

cox.adrian
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Re: steering damper

  mark your steering damper upgrade should have inc

​   parts

    0004636632 

    0090210102-01

   3040170100-32

   9101130100-01

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Re: steering damper

Just fitted a new MB 50mm Damper to my 230GE part no 463 66 32 (thanks Gav)

Light and day difference to the steering.Money well spent.

markhowes
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Re: steering damper

Thanks Adrian,

My own stupid fault for not thinking about nuts and bolts when ordering the damper.

Post It Note now attached to corner of computer screen with "FIXINGS" written in big letters to avoid same thing happening next time.

 

markhowes
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Re: steering damper

Having fitted new thermostat I wanted to do a decent run to see how G liked running at higher temp.

85mph - no vibrations at all - could this be the unknown solution??

New damper now fitted (as Rakesh says -  "easy peasy") but good job I got the correct bolts as old ones would have been too short.

Will be interesting to see how that effects steering wander and slight vibrations at lower than SpiderIV speeds. Will find out tomorrow.

neilmarton
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Re: steering damper

Nice one Mark !!!

neilmarton
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Re: steering damper

Ok guys sorry to butt in !

I have just recieved the good news that I require a new steering damper for my little truck. (W460 280GE RHD)

In light of it needing replacement i think i'll just go for the upgrade 50mm version. (yes i'm a very wise old buzzard me)

Looking at Sherlock's extensive details above I believe i need order from my local MB parts department the following :-

A0004636632 = 50mm dia @ £94.50 + vat

Is that correct ?

Many thanks,

Neil.

Arnie
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Re: steering damper

having bought one a few months ago, the price appears correct and the 463 part-number should = larger damper.

 

 

 

neilmarton
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Re: steering damper

Cheers Arnie i'm gonna go for it !

Mark replaced his recently and he needed new nuts n' bolts. is there a part muber for the nut n' bolt kit ?

Russ280
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Re: steering damper

Russ280 wrote:

It was a Discovery 2 Bilstein. More or less a  direct replacement. IMHO way better than the oem MB fitment.

Or one of these. Better quality IMHO and around £65.

neilmarton
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Re: steering damper

Hello Russ,

Yep i'm open to that suggestion chief ! what about the nuts n' bolts ? does it come wiv em ?

markhowes
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Re: steering damper

I was quite keen to try fitting the uprated damper myself and it was the "more or less" bit that worried me.

The 50mm MB version is a definite improvement on the original.

neilmarton
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Re: steering damper

wot about the nuts n' bolts Mark ?

markhowes
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Re: steering damper

Yes, that is the steering damper that I bought. It costs £110.16 including VAT from that Inchape MB site I gave you. That is for a W463, are you sure it is the same for a 460 (isn't that what you have?).

If so, the bolts that I bought are as follows:

Bolt N304017010037 x 1
Washer N009021010209 x 1
Nut N91011301001 x 2
Bolt N304017010035 x 1

They don't seem to do a "kit" each nut, bolt and washer has it's own part number - and don't think you''re just going to pop down to your local MB dealer's parts department and they will have them all sitting on the shelf - MB in Brighton had to order them all in.
 
but check Gav's post a bit up the page. It's worth sending him a PM or email with your VIN to double check that these are the correct nuts and bolts for your 460. Also whether the 460 requires a different bracket (mine didn't).
 
http://www.gwoa.co.uk/content/steering-damper#comment-80506
 
Anyway, if you've got a decent jack and a couple of axle stands then it's a very simple job to do.
neilmarton
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Re: steering damper

nice one Mark ! I'm gonna give it a bash ! (if i get stuck i'll be collecting you from your crib and bringing ya round to fix her up !)

It was Sherlok whom said that part number was the upgrade for the W460 further up the post. well at least that's how i understood it ?

markhowes
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Re: steering damper

What he actually said was:

Except there are an earlier version of option A) that had an 8mm at one end (NLA) and the brackets need changing as well. The brackets and mountings for each Damper differ from W460/1/3 and from model to model so please enquire with your Chassis Number for more info if you are Upgrading your Damper.

So checking with him first is definitely a good idea in case you do need a bracket.

And the part numbers for the nuts and bolts that Adrian quoted were different and he has a 460 too so his numbers might be correct for your G.

Those nuts and bolts cost nearly £12 so no sense getting the wrong ones - apart from the delay in getting them changed.

 

Russ280
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Re: steering damper

No it doesn't come with nuts and bolts. I think the stablus one uses 8mm the bilstein uses 10mm.

That's what the more or less meant. Std or updated the mb / stablus one's are pretty poor quality and simply don't last. The bilstein improves steering feel as well as sorting out any vibrations.
There's long discussions on the U.S. forums about this.Anyway horse to water and all that:-)

neilmarton wrote:

Hello Russ,

Yep i'm open to that suggestion chief ! what about the nuts n' bolts ? does it come wiv em ?

gav.helme
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Re: steering damper

Hi guys

50mm OK for the late 460 like yours Neil

Nuts and Bolts etc should be the same as Mark's

Whichever type you fit will make a huge difference if the old one is shot

38mm good for 20k on road miles

50mm good for 40k on road miles

Less if you off road, but only drastically less if you REALLY off road

Gav

neilmarton
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Re: steering damper

Cheers Gav,

I'm drinking, i'm drinking.

That's a bit more specific and displays a degree of honed accuracy and proven compatability.

This horse don't wanna be lead to poison !!!.  (fancy rocking up at the MB dealership with a TATA part in your hand saying "Gis a G to fit that")

g wagon g
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Re: steering damper

Ive gone to all that trouble modding a terrafirma return to centre as it bottomed out one way

Shortened tube and shaft and re threaded

Rolled tube over again

Looked really good and job went well, i think it was a discovery 2 item

I have ordered an original one of gav

I will compare both and give my results soon

                                              Gaz

neilmarton
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Re: steering damper

Nice one Gaz ! I'd be most interested to see if the competitions (slightly modified) components out perform the correct OEM parts.