non body-on-frame G from 2016 onwards?

17 replies [Last post]
Theo
Theo's picture
Offline
Joined: 28.01.2010
Location: Guildford
GWOA Groups: Members

Two internet articles claim that from 2016 onwards, the Mercedes G will abolish the body on frame construction.  As a result the car would become 375kg lighter and more of a Range Rover competitor.  If true (which I doubt as it would require a major redesign) I would have to do some soul-searching:  Will the G loose its charm or will it be the ultimate version?

Pistonhead
Pistonhead's picture
Offline
Joined: 16.12.2006
Location: Loughborough
GWOA Groups: Committee, Members
Re: non body-on-frame G from 2016 onwards?

I say it is just talk, they want to finish production of the current format by 2015. The post 2015 model will, if at all conceived, will have to be integral chassis as you have mentioned; due to EC. regulations maintaining that, the ladder frame version has no crumple zones.

Lead time for pre-production vehicles is usually three to five years. If a 2016 version is to make production, we would have heard the drum beating well before now.

Spider1V
Spider1V's picture
Offline
Joined: 21.10.2007
Location: Beaconsfield, Bucks
GWOA Groups: Members
Re: non body-on-frame G from 2016 onwards?

Wonder if that means the G will also lose its locking diffs like the modern RR's? - Maybe it will have three locking ETS traction control? 

375KG lighter? Ad wonders to my current fuel bill LOL

Spider1V

mark
mark's picture
Offline
Joined: 05.11.2003
Location: England
GWOA Groups: Committee, Members
Re: non body-on-frame G from 2016 onwards?

It's all true. Pictures of the new lightweight G have been leaked from Graz.

:)

prwales
prwales's picture
Offline
Joined: 30.05.2007
Location: West Glamorgan
GWOA Groups: Members
Re: non body-on-frame G from 2016 onwards?

better looking than some of the tuners offerings, but a Suzuki Jimny underneath

mark
mark's picture
Offline
Joined: 05.11.2003
Location: England
GWOA Groups: Committee, Members
Re: non body-on-frame G from 2016 onwards?

prwales wrote:

better looking than some of the tuners offerings, but a Suzuki Jimny underneath

lol, spoil sport. Was getting ready to take orders from all the hairdressers on the forum. :)

needamerc
needamerc's picture
Offline
Joined: 23.02.2009
Re: non body-on-frame G from 2016 onwards?

"In 2012 the production contract between Mercedes-Benz and Magna Steyr was extended for another seven years – until 2019"

Full press release here:

http://www.magnasteyr.com/media/press-releases-news/news-page/2013/09/27...

​Eddie.

Theo
Theo's picture
Offline
Joined: 28.01.2010
Location: Guildford
GWOA Groups: Members
Re: non body-on-frame G from 2016 onwards?

There are now two reliable sources (Auto Bild, jesmb.de) that mention major changes for the 2017 G.   Whilst still vague, it appears that the updated G will be 10cm wider to allow for a modern front axle with electric power assisted steering.  The body will be made of alloy instead of steel.  The sources do not mention whether the body on frame construction will be retained.

 An interesting development, it remains to be seen whether the extra 10cm width will dilute the design.

needamerc
needamerc's picture
Offline
Joined: 23.02.2009
Re: non body-on-frame G from 2016 onwards?

I found this article:

http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/grosse-modellpflege-fuer-die-g-klasse-w46...

Google Translate:

According to a recent Auto Bild article, the G-Class W463 from 2016 (model year 2017) is to get a big facelift, while the W461 series remains almost unchanged. 
 
Enclosed are the most important data for W463 Facelift: 
 
Increase in width by 10 cm. 
 
Significant weight reduction by 375 kg; new frame structure made of aluminum. 
 
Multi-link front suspension with upper and lower wishbones. 
 
Engines: Diesel as R6 with 313 hp, gasoline than R6 with 367 hp and 4.0 liter V8 with 462 hp and an AMG variant as V8 with 571 horsepower, the V12 is omitted. 
 
9-speed automatic. 
 
Electric power steering. 
 
Edged silhouette with almost vertical windows and steep tailgate is maintained. 
 
Adaptive LED matrix light. 
 
Portable air ducting blinds. 
 
Numerous assistance systems and head-up display available. 
 
The gemopfte G-Class to be built until at least 2027.

Unquote.

I am still sceptical.

IanA2
IanA2's picture
Offline
Joined: 14.10.2009
Location: East Mids
GWOA Groups: Members
Re: non body-on-frame G from 2016 onwards?

So it looks as if they're putting reasonable power in.

Theo
Theo's picture
Offline
Joined: 28.01.2010
Location: Guildford
GWOA Groups: Members
Re: non body-on-frame G from 2016 onwards?

The "reasonable" power and the limited drive-ability of the current AMG versions raises the question whether the 2017 model will have air suspension.  It would be the next evolutionary step of the G, 460 > 463 > 465?

mark
mark's picture
Offline
Joined: 05.11.2003
Location: England
GWOA Groups: Committee, Members
Re: non body-on-frame G from 2016 onwards?

So with 6 Merc 4x4 SUV models, you'd hope they'll get one right. :)

needamerc
needamerc's picture
Offline
Joined: 23.02.2009
Re: non body-on-frame G from 2016 onwards?

The general consensus on Facebook and Viermalvier.de is that the AutoBild claims about a a new G-Class for 2016/17 are rubbish except for the talk of new straight six diesels.

I quote a well respected German automotive journalist and G-Wagen expert:

"there is a lot off bullshit in Auto Bild"

Claims about a new B-Class based "GLB" and an ML Coupe seem plausible enough.

Eddie.

mark
mark's picture
Offline
Joined: 05.11.2003
Location: England
GWOA Groups: Committee, Members
Re: non body-on-frame G from 2016 onwards?

Seem unlikely. Those changes = new model, not a facelift.

Theo
Theo's picture
Offline
Joined: 28.01.2010
Location: Guildford
GWOA Groups: Members
Re: non body-on-frame G from 2016 onwards?

Definitely a new model but I would be cautious with “a lot of bullshit”.  I have never seen exact figures but from different comments one can conclude that about half of the annual 8,000 Gs sold are AMG versions. The drive-ability of these cars is comical.  But it is still possible to sell a G65 at €300k and a G63 6x6 at €450k. Assuming a) a target price of € 200k for a G63 with air suspension (as compared to €150k for the current model),  b) an unchanged annual sales volume of 4,000 cars and c) a ten year production run (as mentioned in the article), I would expect that the exercise makes economic sense. For example Mercedes delivered about 8,000 SLS for the above mentioned € 200k price tag in the 2011 - 2013 time period.

mark
mark's picture
Offline
Joined: 05.11.2003
Location: England
GWOA Groups: Committee, Members
Re: non body-on-frame G from 2016 onwards?

% sales for 2007

Theo
Theo's picture
Offline
Joined: 28.01.2010
Location: Guildford
GWOA Groups: Members
Re: non body-on-frame G from 2016 onwards?

Annual sales of 4,000 AMG Gs should be conservative:  up to 2012 a total of 230,000 Gs have been sold over a 33 year time period or about 7,000 a year.  The annual sales figure had dropped to about 4,500 vehicles in 2009.  In September 2013 and in context with increase of the production capacity in Graz, Mercedes published a press release stating: a) sales from 2011 to 2012 have increased by 35% to about 9,000 vehicles and b) sales in the first half of 2013 have increased by 70% over the first half of 2012. I know from various sources that this increase can mainly be attributed to the success of the G63 (launched mid-2012) in the non-European markets.  In the Middle-East the AMGs account for nearly all G sales, in the US the G63 outsells the G500 (no 350 are being offered) having on-paper the lower fuel consumption.  [these figures include the military vehicles (and the Australian order should have contributed to deliveries as well), but it still makes sense to assume a 50% market share for AMG Gs or 4,000 vehicles per year]

mark
mark's picture
Offline
Joined: 05.11.2003
Location: England
GWOA Groups: Committee, Members
Re: non body-on-frame G from 2016 onwards?

It would appear these rumours do have some truth to them.