New to the G Scene

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zelley2002
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Hello all.

Im new to G wagons and have been dreaming of owning one for year and years, Having owned lots of 4x4's over the years always had gone Japanese and its worth noting never a land rover of any sort, anyway 2 weeks ago I treated my self to a G Wagon.

The reason for this is because my other 4X4 is/was a 89 landcruser that is used for heavy green laning but with young children I have found next to no time to use it, also because its heavily modded I found it such a worry to use In the road with the children. My Wife and plan to travel for 4 weeks next year towing some sort of vintage caravan, not fully decided where we are going yet, but we plan to fill up with diesel and head off somewhere.

What im looking for is advise on what I need to change and do to keep this OM617A reliable and give it a little more go but not so much power that It goes pop, im sure you know what I mean.

I have been speaking to Diesel Pump UK, and seen what he can do, I find him a very nice honest chap and do plan to have him build me a pump. But im thinking it would be a good idea to buy a bigger radiator beforehand as, who can supply a bigger custom radiator?  

Cheers Martin

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Nick123
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Re: New to the G Scene
Welcome to the fun,Martin. It might be worth your while doing lots and lots of Google research on DieselpumpUK... All the best for your new adventures.
Jdring
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Re: New to the G Scene

Welcome Martin.

I love SWB (and have a 230GE) and those wheels are the best :)

There is a lot of searchable material on here - too many forums in fact, going back nearly 20 years of the GWOA 25 years this year. You will get a members pack when we have sourced a nice package.

There are a lot of G veterans passing through here, and there are other forums which are helpful too.

If your 3 litre is a turbo, then thats a solid unit.  I have a 463 with OM642, which is the V6 replacement for that - very nice but a lot of electronics in there.  There will be experts on here with ideas for your turbo, but there is nothing electronic to really map, so I assume its a case of injectors, turbo, exhaust improvements.

zelley2002
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Re: New to the G Scene

That sounds like you have info that could make me not want to have one of his pumps? 
like I have said reliability is imperative I'd just like a touch more go in a hope that I can keep the truck and caravan to travel at a higher speed so that lorry's arnt over takeing me all day. 

Theo
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Re: New to the G Scene

Welcome; I assume you bought a 300GD/ 460 with a turbo conversion; I have no first-hand experience and can only repeat what I have heard in the past: Mercedes never offered the 617A in the 460 but a few years later the 603 in the 350 GD Turbo / G 350 TD (463 with  permanent four-wheel drive); it has a slightly higher output than the 617A but had initial problems with the cylinder head and cooling; the solutions for these are known and probably give you pointers for the cooling of the 617A engine as well; it could be worthwhile checking the max allowable torque for your gearbox as well.

prwales
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Re: New to the G Scene

Welcome to the G-wagen club, I'd think long and hard before you go down the conversion route, a bells and whistles 606a & looking at a minimum of £10k and needing to chose the best to do the work. Finding a turbo for an old 617 is a different issue entirely as they werent a factory option. Talk to Crewe Engines about your options.

You also have to weigh up the modest decrease in fuel consumption that you might get. The 617 diesel in 3 litre form is slow but utterly reliable, and it will run on anything. The 603 unit in the 463 is a nicer smoother engine very reliable and more powerful [just]. If you intend lots of motorway miles it might be worth doing a conversion but otherwise it doesn't add up. I'd try and sample as many of the different engines the G has to offer b4 you decide. Don't rule out a petrol 463 either, the 103 engines are smooth and fuel efficient, auto will give 18/19 mpg a manual a bit more. The diesel is only 23-25 so after the fuel cost increase barely worth it.

 

Theo
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Re: New to the G Scene

OM617 = 300GD:  87HP, 172 Nm

OM617A = turbo, E Class in Europe:  123HP, 250 Nm @2,400; two (?) Gs were built with this engine on special order in 1982 (?); 280GE: 154HP, 226Nn@4,250;  SWB 460 G with 617A could therefore be regarded as ultimate 460. 

 

Nick123
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Re: New to the G Scene
617: Slow as a snail; strong as an ox.
Theo
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Re: New to the G Scene

Hi Martin, have a search through old posts in the forum;  I found this one: http://www.gwoa.co.uk/content/617a-whats-difference  

 

zelley2002
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Re: New to the G Scene

Thanks all for the replies and comments, don't get me wrong I'd like to keep this engine going for as long as possible, changing a perfect lovely engine is the last thing I'd like to do only wound I be fitting something like a 606 if this goes bang one day witch I can't see happening, but because I plan to use for towing and towing with children on board I'd like to be able to keep it at 60MPH, I'm used go driving old cars at 50ish on the motorway but when I have the children in the car I'd ideally not like for lorries to be over taking every 5 minutes. 

panzer
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Re: New to the G Scene

Hi

I have two friends running 617a engines in 460,s. The engines where from the US and from W126/W123 - S and E class cars. The A means it was built by Mercedes specifically as a turbo unit as opposed to having a tubo fitted to a standard engine. I understand there are a number of differences and the 617A has stronger internals. My experience driving one is it is a great transplant and goes very well and is a straitford job fitting. No idea about upgrades cost v power etc. the two I know of have been reliable and both work for a living!

prwales
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Re: New to the G Scene

An unmodified 460 gd will maintain 70mph motorway speeds with no trouble, slower with a caravan but ok 

zelley2002
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Re: New to the G Scene

Ok trubble is I can get it to 70, but my foot is flat on the floor and it seams to run hot ish. I'm thinking towing a giant box on wheels full of crap is going to be slow and running very hot. 
maybe someone can tell me different? I have seen this on eBay screen shot of his under bonet. Any idea who can supply this radiator. 

Theo
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Re: New to the G Scene

I would have thought a 617A can reach 90 mph.  Do you have a 617 or a 617A in your G?

If it is a 617A and it is running hot you might need an oil cooler; but one should first have an understanding why your top speed is too low, i.e. where the power loss comes from.

Here are the offical top speeds:

300GD: 88 HP, 127 km/h = 79 mph

300 GD / G 300 Diesel (463):  113 HP, 141 km/h = 87 mph

350 GD Turbo / G 350 TD: 136 HP, 150 km/h = 93 mph

 

 

zelley2002
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Re: New to the G Scene

As far as I'm aware it's a. 617A. Not a 617 that's had a turbo fitted. That said I'm far from an expert on this fact as like I have said I'm new to the G Scene. Below is a photo of under the bonet. 

Theo
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Re: New to the G Scene

I think you need an expert here, it might be that your turbo has failed;  as a first step I would identify your engine via the engine number and the type of gearbox installed might give clues as well.

prwales
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Re: New to the G Scene

I took mine to France, complete with roof box, bikes and 3 passengers, identical car to yours though the diesel pump had been turned up, no problem maintaining 70+. You might try that first

G-Restorations
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Re: New to the G Scene
Hello Martin If you'd like to cut through the jungle of what you can do with the power of your G Give me a call during the week. I have a bit of experience with Gs and diesels. Regards Gordon 01253 892293
G-Restorations
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Re: New to the G Scene
prwales wrote:

Welcome to the G-wagen club, I'd think long and hard before you go down the conversion route, a bells and whistles 606a & looking at a minimum of £10K

 

"Minimum of 10k" not so Paul, £6200 from me.
zelley2002
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Re: New to the G Scene

Thanks for your time on the phone this morning Gordan, below is a photo of my engine code, if anyone could confirm that I'm correct in saying this is a 617a. Not just a 617 with a turbo fitted? 

prwales
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Re: New to the G Scene

thats a good price, sorry Gordon, I thought it would be a lot more

Theo
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Re: New to the G Scene
good news, OM617.951 is a 617A; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_OM617_engine 
 
Do you have your VIN as well?

 

zelley2002
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Re: New to the G Scene

Yes very pleased, not looked at Vin. I do know this engine wasn't in it when it was new, I'm just happy it is what I thought it was. Now I just need to decide on pump choice? Or shal I just twist the current pump further? Looking at the flat head on the top of the pump it's definitely been messed with in the past. 
Anyone got the valve clearences measurements to hand?

Jdring
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Re: New to the G Scene

Pump looks good.  Where's that turbo?  I would see some of the pump specialists on here and maybe re-furb this pump with bigger/adjusted injectors.  Even if you uprate the pump you are not using the extra all the time.

G-Restorations
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Re: New to the G Scene
zelley2002 wrote:

Yes very pleased, not looked at Vin. I do know this engine wasn't in it when it was new, I'm just happy it is what I thought it was. Now I just need to decide on pump choice? Or shal I just twist the current pump further? Looking at the flat head on the top of the pump it's definitely been messed with in the past. 
Anyone got the valve clearences measurements to hand?

I think I know why your power is down. The little horsetail thing on the square ALDA should have a pipe going to the inlet manifold. Without this you won't get full fuel/boost