new g wagon

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g wagon g
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I have just purchased a 463 g wagon  to add to my collection


Petrol 3.0 auto

Anyone got some honest fuel figures for general driving. I will know when i get it home but i am trying to compare my om606td converted g wagon to the 3.0 petrol auto which is not fair. Cruising at 70mph what are the engine revs on the petrol 3.0ge


I have done many projects but whats a good petrol engine that is strong and economical and an easy fit


5 speed autos i would also like to know about those. Do i need an electronic controller for a 5 speed auto and which ones are the best

Yes i am sorry for so many questions but i need to know. If anyone in the world could tell me what power feeds and earth wires for my ecu i need to run my 5.5 bi turbo mercedes sls engine i would fit that in it but no one can help. I am getting there slowly after picking through 2 wheelbarrows full of wiring loom

I have a wiring diagram but it does not state 12 volt and 5 volt and earths clearly and i am pretty sure i have most but dont want to damage the ecu. Can anyone help as every other stand alone ecu company or whatever cant help me. Little box ecu and some electronics how hard can it be for someone to tell me what feed is what and i will pay whatever within reason. Bosche were the most helpful at a cost of 6000 for a motorsport ecu plus loom etc


If i get it up and running i will be pleased and im sure i will now its not so cold in my garage and i feel like doing a bit

The engine is fitted in a mercedes 190 and i have modified to manual box and rack instead of steering box. Al it needs is running and i can do the rest


I will post pics of g wagon if it makes it home

 

 

g wagon g
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Re: new g wagon

Hi


Should be converted from steering box to rack and fitted manual 6 speed gearbox

Arnie
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Re: new g wagon

g wagon g wrote:

I have just purchased a 463 g wagon  to add to my collection


Petrol 3.0 auto

Anyone got some honest fuel figures for general driving. I will know when i get it home but i am trying to compare my om606td converted g wagon to the 3.0 petrol auto which is not fair. Cruising at 70mph what are the engine revs on the petrol 3.0ge


If you cruise at <70  mph you can just about get 22 mpg on a 3.0 auto SWB. RPM will be around 3,600, but the M103 is an engine designed for revs and will be happy all day at 6,000 rpm.

Around town, may be 18 mpg at best.

 

g wagon g wrote:

5 speed autos i would also like to know about those. Do i need an electronic controller for a 5 speed auto and which ones are the best

 

There were two versions of the 5-speed. The latter is all electronic, but is the best one. The earlier one had some reliability issues and was electro-hydraulically controlled.

 

The 4 speed that you have is not bad, though - very good, in fact, if properly adjusted.

prwales
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Re: new g wagon

There was a 5 speed version of your autobox fitted to the w124 and the w129 SL with the om104 3 litre 24v engine. Put basically its the same engine block and ke jetronic fueling system as yours but with a double over head cam cylinder head. Rare now though.

My manual version of your truck swb which has a catalyst delete and a k&n, only averages 19/20 mpg in mixed motoring, which make 18 in a lwb quite good

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Re: new g wagon

Hi Arnie

​Thats good info and much appreciated in real world terms

It will help me in deciding what to do next or leave as is

                             Regards Gaz

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Re: new g wagon

               Thank you

All taken on board and if i get 20 mpg and 17 at worst i might keep it as it is

I was shocked at how quiet it is compared to mine.When it ticks over i thought it had cut out lol

I have done much work on the engines but only in cars and for the weight of a g wagon and auto the figures are not too bad

My om606td conversion has spoilt me but it will be a nice change to have a quiet petrol model


                                                Gaz

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Re: new g wagon

The M103 is one of the most reliable engines as nearly everything is mecahnical and the electronics are mostly used for fine-tuning the fuel injection. The newer 5-speed electronically-controlled transmission is a  little cleverer than the 4-speed. For instance,, it can detect inclines and respond accordingly, but in terms of smoothness and shifting, the 4-speed is just as good and is practically indestructible. Change the transmission oil and filter and re-fill with a good synthetic oil (Fuchs SL 6000) and it will be really good. The only weak spot may be the shift modulator, which is a vacuum operated device and it may be a good idea to replace this if you think the shifting is harsh or too sloppy. A revised and uprated version was introduced in 1994. It's about £100 and attaches  from the outside.

On the engine, be prepared to change the valve-stem seals if you see high oil consumption. It's an age thing: the rubber dries out, and it's quite a common issue on the M103. The only other possible issue is a coolant leak, typically from the rear corner of the cylinder head and  block (exhaust side). If so, a new head gasket (improved) will be required.

 

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Re: new g wagon

Hi arnie

​Drove it back 220 miles after 7 years of standing and to be fair it drives well. Crap on fuel compared to om 606 but it is auto so i cant complain. 70mph is about 3500 revs and gearbox seemed to work fine even compared to more modern boxes. You are right i think and leave it alone. I have done valve seals in situ and yes there is a bit of oil around head but i dont know if its run down from rocker box. Its only a very small amount and there are no leaks on bottom of engine so to speak. Ie its just damp not a wet patch or drip


I will take some pics tomo and study the affair. Ive literally just got home 30 mins ago

                                                  Gaz

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Re: new g wagon

You'll get a bit more poke by deleting the cat and removing the final exhaust box, the whole exhaust system is extraordinarily convoluted. If you want to go further there are old style tuners who will build you a big valve head, the price of more power will be worse fuel consumption.

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Re: new g wagon

Hi


Its a vicious circle

Now the wife has had a go in it she wants it or mine.

Life is so complicated lol

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Glad to hear rhat you managed to collect the car without any issues.

The top section of the timing chain cover has a number of seal interfaces and will eventually leak some oil. It's a quick job to fix, but you need to use the type of Loctite RTV silicone (type 5900) for long-term effect.


If you go any faster than 70 mph fuel consumption increases dramatically.

 

 

 

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Re: new g wagon

I know you are correct

Studied engine today and there are no leaks and its all pretty dry to be fair

Whats a good economical engine swap i could perform. The original engine is good but if my wife wants it i might fit a newer engine, It wont be original but if it improves things i dont care


It drives well and she would be ok with fuel but i am mechnically minded and if i could make it better i could do it


Why do work people will ask???. If she wants it i will do it mint and can forget about it apart from a service once  year or any odd jobs that need attention


LWB would suit best i think

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Re: new g wagon

 

There are quitre a few (around 90) on Autotrader, although many of them are LHD, and surprisingly there are some newer ones (eg 2011, G500, 78k miles, at £29k) ) that are significantly cheaper than some from year 2000. But I suppose you are looking for pre- March 2006 for lower road tax.​


A white 1997 G300 caught my eye, if you are looking for another G300. However, that engine works best with SWB.

If you don't mind LHD, and prefer Diesel, there is a LWB, G400:

​£28,000:  Mercedes-Benz G Wagen G 400 4.0 G 400 9 seat

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Re: new g wagon

Hi arnie

​i cant suffer lhd and guess what. The wife wants the one i bought. I think i will just do jobs and leave it as it is. It will be fine im sure. I might swap some of the best bits on to mine lol

I tried to advise her lwb newer but shes having none of it

I am in the market for a newer g wagon but i will wait until the latest type dash models get around the 35 to 40k bracket and that will do me till i keel over i recon

 

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Re: new g wagon

Well, SWB versions are my favourite. Much more maneuverable around town and easier to park. Sounds like you have a plan, then.

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Well, SWB versions are my favourite. Much more maneuverable around town and easier to park. Sounds like you have a plan, then.

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Re: new g wagon

 A plan will hatch

Its doing no harm sitting here, If the wife pinches it i will have to swap some bits on to mine pretty rapid before she studies it more lol

                                                      Gaz

 

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Re: new g wagon

The new purchase

The drivers door looks a different colour but its my photo skills lol. Its really tidy to be honest for the age of it

Mines all done now but this would of been a very easy starting point to make a mint g wagon, well easier than mine anyway

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Re: new g wagon

Mine after its yearly wash

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Re: new g wagon

Nice colour.

Is that Beryl Blue?

 

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Paint work looks to be in good condition. very different colour from yours, so will be hard to get them mixed-up.

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Hi Mark

I have not even looked yet. Its a really different blue green, i have not seen before. It is original so i will check colour asap

​                                             Gaz

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Lol


No i wont get them mixed up

I am too kind and she likes the blue green one but likes mine for power. Both are not fast but i have options


The blue auto could have a transplant if i end up with that one. If i end up with my one , the pink one i will just be happy anyway as it is all i need

She did comment tonight they are a bit slow compared to her previous motors and i explained thats just how they are as they are heavy. Put the other motors off road and you will want the g wagon hands down lol

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Re: new g wagon

Arnie - is that definite - a SWB 300G should be doing 70mph at 3,600rpm??

Just been out in mine and 3,500rpm is 60mph and very close to 4,000rpm to hit 70mph

Could there be a problem brewing?

 

 

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Re: new g wagon

G speedo is hopeless for accuracy , suggest you compare with a Sat Nav , also aftermarket wheels have an influence on rpm/mph

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Hi Arnie


I do not bullshit but we all make mistakes


What i said is true and the speedo believe it or not reads accurate and not a lower actual speed than is indicated on speedo. Well at least up to 70mph


I Have the reason,,,, as someone commented it has 18" g 500 wheels which are way bigger than the standard g wheels for the car

This is why i am doing 70mph at less revs as the circumference of the wheels is similar to mine with standard wheels but big tyres. you know all that but its not clear in picture

​Any questions just ask me and i will test both no problem. But its true what i said and looking at a standard wheel and tyre profile the 18 inch wheels are way bigger even though it does not look like it on vehicle. Its still ok off the mark but better at cruising revs. Its still not much better on fuel but about 18 mpg combined. Your figures were spot on my friend


                                                        G

 

 

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Re: new g wagon

Yes, i think if you look at the speedo, it's approx 3,500 revs for 70 mph: about 20mph/ 1,000 rpm. But speedo is a little overoptimistic on mine. That's why I said 3,600, as a guess.for true 70mph

Below are some tables with calculated values, based on published grear ratios for the 300GE, Auto, with standard tyre/wheel sizes and ideal tyre diameters

The figures you get might depend on what tyre size you actually have, if you are going by GPS speed figures, rather than speedo, (and speedos are generally designed to over-read).The 300GE also had a mechanical speedo in the early versions and an electronic one in later versions, so other factors to consider.

Importantly, I think that the 4-speed auto does not have Torque-Converter Lock-up on 4th gear, meaning there will always be some slip. So, depending on load (eg driving up-hill or against strong winds), the engine RPM will be a few % higher than the ideal figures below. You can check by driving at slightly more than the indicated 70 MPH and then taking your foot off the accelerator so that the engine is on over-run and look at the RPM when the speedo needle hits 70. It should give a lower RPM and then you can take the average of the 2 readings (RPM at 70 under power and at 70 on over-run).

If your RPM figures are significantly higher, eg 4,000 rpm at 70 MPH, it may be due to tyre sizing (have seen people use lower profile tyres, eg 265 / 60 R16), or excessive torque-converter slip due to low fluid-level in the transmission (fluid level is checked with engine on.)

 

 

 

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Re: new g wagon

Hmmm - my tyres are 265/70/15 which, I think, means that I am actually doing 68 when the speedo is reading 70. So that means I'm using even more rpm to maintain the desired speed.

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Mark,

Well, that would go some way to explaining it. The original, factory-fit, 255 / 75 R15 tyres are very hard to find these days.

Is your 70MPH according to the speedo or GPS?

 

I've not been able to find any typical slip figures for the torque-converter on the MB 722.3 auto box, but if you factor-in some 5% slip and possible speed inaccuracy, you may be about there.

 

 

The auto box on these cars is very reliable, but it would not hurt to check the level and to do a fluid change, if it's not had one in a while.

 

More info on the gearbox (Mercedes 722.3)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_4G-Tronic_transmission

 

'....The 722.3 has been used in a plethora of Mercedes-Benz cars. It is considered by enthusiasts to be one of the most reliable transmissions ever built by Mercedes-Benz with some examples exceeding 300,000 miles of service....

 

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Re: new g wagon

Thanks Arnie,

Could be the speedo I guess - I did wonder why I keep going past everyone else on the motorway when I think I'm only doing 70 laugh.

Will check against satnav next time I have someone in the car with me - you really do have to pay attention to the road when driving a G at speed.....................

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Re: new g wagon

 All excellent info as usuall

My 18" wheels on the new g are a lot bigger than the standard 16" wheels with original size tyres hence the lower revs at 70

Also on the sat nav the speedo is exact until 75mph then it reads a bit high but not much

                                     Gaz

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My speedo is way out. I need some stickers on the dial

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markhowes wrote:

Nice colour.

Is that Beryl Blue?

No its a red colour


Could not help myself dont take offence. Is the colour plate on the heater box under bonnet????

It looks like a colour code and if it is i will post it up

                                      Gaz