New to G Wagen - 230 ge G460

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GDown
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Folks

I am based in Co Down and have very recently bought a 1990 230 GE G Wagen. I have owned Land Rovers all my life (currently have S1, S2 and 110 models) and fancy something a bit different. Looking forward to getting the vehicle home and seeing what it can do. From what I can see there from the forum are a few other owners this side of the Irish Sea.

I collect the vehicle in the south west of England next week and come home via Liverpool. Couple of very basic questions.....

1. What gear oils does it use (main/transfer box, diffs etc)

2. It needs new tyres ordered for it. What size does it take - will 235/70 R16 fit? Don't know what I am doing here as classic LR tyres really only come in 2 sizes and G Wagens seem to have more options!

Looking forward to the forum - sorry about the really basic questions but I really don't know much about these vehicles.

In terms of my 4x4 interests.... I used to do RTV trials etc but in recent years have moved more towards the "classic" end of things. Currently working on SI Land Rover rebuild and just finished a SII rebuild. Everyone has their own approach and mine is to keep things pretty much original - it will be the same with the G Wagen.

 

Regards

 

Phil

GDown
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Re: New to G Wagen - 230 ge G460

Folks

As per last email - photo of rim attached. No idea of what siz tyre goes onto this

 

Regards

 

Phil 

neilmarton
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Re: New to G Wagen - 230 ge G460

Looks the same as my wheels ! they are 15" (but i'm not sure i've attached a photo. they are the same ain't they ?) these 15" alloys were pretty much the standard between 86-90

My tyres are :-

255/ 75/ R15

But maybe just wait til you get her home and check. or call the seller and ask them to check ?

Neil.

 

Arnie
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Re: New to G Wagen - 230 ge G460

Hello and welcome!

 

For the transmission oils:

Rear and Front Diffs: An SAE-90 Hypoy / EP type oil to GL-5 (1.2 litres front and 1.8 litres rear).

Transfer Case: An SAE-80 gear oil to GL-4

Manual Gearbox: Automatic Transmission fluid (ATF) - 2.5 litres

Auto Gearbox: Automatic Transmission fluid (ATF) to Dexron-II spec - 7 litres

 

Below is a list I'd prepared for someone else with a similar question (based on oils available from a particular retailer).

 

Item

QTY

Description

1

2 x 5 Litres

Valvoline 5W-40 synthetic engine oil

2

2 x 5 Litres

Semi-synthetic Auto Transmission Fluid 

(for transmission and power-steering)

3

1 x 5 Litres

MB Approved G48 concentrated coolant (all G-Wagens, but better for W463)

MB Approved G05 concentrated coolant (Better for W460)

4

1 x 5 Litres

De-ionised water

(for above)

5

1 x 1 litre

Castrol DOT-4 Synthetic Brake Fluid

(for brakes and diff-locks)

6

3 x 1 Litre

Castrol Syntrans 75W-90 Fully Synthetic MTF to GL-4

(for transfer case)

7

4 x 1 Litre

Castrol Universal 75w-90 semi-synthetic gear oil  to GL-5  

(for front and rear diffs)

8

1 x 500g

Silkolene PRO RG2 Racing Grease -500gm

(for prop-shafts)

9

1 x 500g

Castrol Multipurpose Lithium Grease -500g Tub 

(for front swivel housings)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Arnie
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Re: New to G Wagen - 230 ge G460

As for the wheels and tyres,   I think your wheels are no 4  in the list below

http://www.rubicon-trail.com/G-Class/wheels/start.html

In which case they will run 225 70 R16 tyres

However if they are the standard 15" versions (as Neil mentioned) that were fitted to the W460 with wheel arch extensions, then the standard tyre for these is 255, 75 R15. But you will find only a very limited number of manufacturers still making tyres in this size and most of them are to outdated tread patterns. Goodyear Wranglers are still available and one of the better tyres. There may also be some additional choice from finding the US equivalent size in inches.

 

The 16" rims have infinite choice in comparison.

 

 

 

 

 

GDown
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Re: New to G Wagen - 230 ge G460

Folks

 

Thanks very much for the info. The list of lubricants is perfect.

With regard to the tyres..... Apparently the vehicle has a new MOT but when I mentioned I was taking it up to Liverpool the dealer felt I had better sort the tyres.... He said he would fit them at cost if I could tell him what I wanted.

I suspect the side walls are cracked etc. I was looking at Pirelli Scorpion ATR which seem to get a good report. Anyone any experience of these?

 

Regards

 

Phil

 

neilmarton
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Re: New to G Wagen - 230 ge G460

Phil,

I had pirelli scorpions on one of my Range Rovers.

They are expensive and their ratings no better than a euro equivelent (which can be much cheaper) If you've got the 15" rims you will be limted to choice. I think cooper make them for those rims still ?

What do you want nice quiet road tyres or something chunky ?

If the tyres are perished how did it pass an MOT ? (don't ask mate mine had 12 months MOT but no wiring into the rear door !!!) Dealers can get MOT's !

Ask the dealer to read the size off the existing tyre wall and just google serach to find your options.

Good luck buddy and welcome to a life living with "G'Bola" !!!

neil.

Arnie
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Re: New to G Wagen - 230 ge G460

Actually, I may be wrong about the 16" tyre size, It probably is not 225 70 R16

I know that for the 15" the tyre size is definitely 255 75 R15

For 16" rims , which I think you have, the size 225 80 R16 will give the same rolling radius.

maybe someone else can confirm the 16" tyre size.

 

I know that sometimes 245 75 R16 are fitted, but too wide a tyres will add rolling resistance and reduce perfromnca e from the 230GE.

http://www.gwoa.co.uk/forum/tyre-advice-please

 

you can use this calculator to compare rolling circumference to the 255 75 R15

http://www.wheel-size.com/calc/?wheel1=255-75-15X7.5ET45&wheel2=225-80-16X5.5ET40&fcl=50mm&wcl=30mm&scl=50mm

 

 

 

cox.adrian
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Re: New to G Wagen - 230 ge G460

  MY 89 300GD HAS /HAD 16 INCH OEM BUT IT DEPENDS ON IF 6.5  OR THE WIDE 7.5 WHEELS ARE

  FITTED ON THE 230GE I HAD THE 6.5 SKINNY WHEELS AND WHEEL ARCH FLARES STD

   TYERS THE WIDEST I FITTED WERE COOPER 235/70/16 ORIGINAL 205/70/16

neilmarton
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Re: New to G Wagen - 230 ge G460

Arnie is right !

Your rims don't look the same as my 15" yours have got the edge of the spokes rolled over not flat with the rim edge so do appear different. Maybe they are 16" ?

I need some new boots for my 15" (mine are getting a bit old and don't match on all four corners. but I want the white writing on mine for my own aesthetic reasons so these might be my option = http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255-75R15-KUMHO-KL78-4x4-Tyres-x-4-four-2557515-255-75-15-Top-Brand-Value-/201035439048?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&fits=Tyre+Width%3A255%7CAspect+Ratio%3A75%7CDiameter%3A15&hash=item2ecea55bc8

Neil.

cox.adrian
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Re: New to G Wagen - 230 ge G460

  COOPER  LOW NOISE AND GOOD ON OFF ROAD SPIDER  USES THEM ON HIS V8 

  AND IF I REMEMBER RIGHT 75 GBP EACH

http://us.coopertire.com/Customer-Care/Tire-Selector.aspx?searchType=met...

neilmarton
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Re: New to G Wagen - 230 ge G460

Hi Adrian,

If he has the 15" rims cooper are not offering the 75mm profile in the correct width on their website line up ?

But if he a cost effective solution was needed for the 15" rims and aesthetic doesn't matter (i.e the white writing on side wall) then these good year wrangler are cheap as chips !!! http://www.tyreleader.co.uk/car-tyres/goodyear/wrangler-ultra-grip/255-75-r15-110t-303673

 

Arnie
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Re: New to G Wagen - 230 ge G460

Goodyear ultra grip is a winter tyre

 

neilmarton
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Re: New to G Wagen - 230 ge G460

Yeah i had noticed that Arnie ! But have you looked out the window today !

GDown
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Re: New to G Wagen - 230 ge G460

Folks

 

Great responses from the forum. I even had someone PM me and offer to lend a hand with the pickup. Clearly a fantastic community.

Arnie, thanks for the tyre calculator link. V useful. Not really something I have ever had to consider previously so it's a bit of a learning curve. You are absolutely correct - the alloy wheels look like R16 x 5.5 as per your schedule.

After a bit of surfing it is clear that some sizes offer more alternatives, competition and hence better value than others. The 235x70xR16 size in particular is pretty close to stock rolling dia  (reduces gearing very slightly) and gives lots of options. 

The dealer phoned today and it looks like I will be able to buy the tyres online and get them fitted post purchase in Gloucester cheaper than he can. The wonders of the internet. I can buy 235x70xR16 Pirelli Scorpion ATR fitted for £85 a corner which I think is reasonable. Putting aside the choice of tyre and before I finally push the button on these, will this size of tyre cause me any problems with this vehicle/wheel combination? Will it rub on full lock etc?

Sorry for the basic questions - all new to me.

Regards

Phil

Russ280
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Re: New to G Wagen - 230 ge G460

By the way. If you look at imperial sixes you increase your options. I have 31x15x10.5's. These are on 7inch wide rims though.

They won't cause any rubbing issues. People fit 33inch tyres without any mods.


This is just my personal opinion but the 5.5 inch diameter wheels always look lost in the G wheel arches. Can you wait until you get it home before you splash out and consider your options?

Russ280
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Re: New to G Wagen - 230 ge G460

One last thing. Slightly larger, as you've pointed out can be good from a gearing perspective. Go too mad and you'll suck what little power you have out of a 230 and it'll be a dog to drive.

 

Arnie
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Re: New to G Wagen - 230 ge G460

Every, factory-option wheel has an officially-specified tyre size. The 460 came mostly with the steel 16" wheels (6"wide) or, with the 15" wheel (7.5" wide), if the wide-wheel-arch option was specified.

Therefore, the 16" alloy wheels you have are somewhat rare, but I would try to find out what the factory tyre size would have been for those wheels. That way you will not mess-up the gearing (these cars are geared on the low-side anyway and you don't really want to make it any lower) or the speedometer reading.

My guess is that these 16" alloy wheels should take a slightly wider tyre than the steel wheels which I believe had a 205/80-R16 tyre. (Probably a 225/75 R16 is right for these alloys.)

If no one here can verify the original factory tyre for these 16" alloy wheels, then you could go with one that is close to the rolling circumference of the 255 / 75 R15 tyres (on the 15", wide, alloys)

The 235 / 70 R16 size seems to be about as close as you'll get to that.

Bear in mind that the the tyre width should not be less than, but also not much greater than the rim width, which for these wheels is 5.5". That is two inches or 50mm less than the 15" wheels which take 275mm width tyres.   50mm less than that would give a tyre width of 205 mm

I would say, therefore, that a 235 /75 R16 tyre would be fine, but don't go wider than that.

 

The 235 / 75 R16 is closer to the diameter of the wide, 15" alloys / tyres

The 225 / 75 R16 size is closer to the diameter of the stock, steel wheels / tryes.

 

I have a feeling, though, that given the relatively narrow, 5.5" rim width,  the correct size for these 16" alloys should be

225 / 75 R16.

 

  diameter /cm circum / cm
205 / 80 R16 (460 Steel wheels) 73.44 230.7
     
255 / 75 R15 (460, wide alloys) 76.35 239.9
     
235 / 75 R16 (option-1) 75.89 238.4
     
225 / 75 R16 (option-2) 74.39 233.7

 

 

 

 

 

cox.adrian
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Re: New to G Wagen - 230 ge G460

  my w460 G was delivered new with 16 inch alloy 205 / 70 /16 and factory fitted wheel arch flares

Arnie
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Re: New to G Wagen - 230 ge G460

Adrian, that's interesting because that is a difference of around 10%, which is quite substantial. (205 / 70 R16 gives a diameter 69.3 cm)

Which model of alloy wheels did you have? Wide or narrow?

The standard 265 / 70 R16 on the W463 has a 77.7 cm diameter

 

 

 

 

cox.adrian
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Re: New to G Wagen - 230 ge G460

  the skinny ones but i ended up fitting 235/70/16 over size

   looks much better with the hutchinsons 265/75/16 BF GOODRICHcheeky

GDown
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Re: New to G Wagen - 230 ge G460

Hi All

 

Arnie, my guess was also that the 225 was offered as an alternative to the 205 on these wheels however it isn't that common a size and therefore options are limited and relatively expensive compared with 235. I am slightly "shooting in the dark" regarding gearing however the 230ge certainly can't be over endowed with power (especially since it's 25 years old) and that is one of the main reasons for sticking to a conservative rolling dia. I won't be doing English motorway miles in this G - all it needs to do is sit at 60 on a 1.5 hr run over to Fermanagh once in a while when I nip over for work. It's a five speed which will hopefully make things a bit more comfortable.

Thanks for all the collective help. I fly over and pick up the beast tomorrow in Gloucester, get new tyres fitted and head up the M6 for the 22.30 Liverpool boat. I took the precaution of booking hold baggage for my tools and joining Green Flag. Let's hope neither are needed!

I will post photos up once (if?) I get home.

 

Regards

 

Phil

GDown
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Re: New to G Wagen - 230 ge G460

Folks

 

As promised, a couple of photos of the G when I got it back to the house. I took a chance buying it for not a whole lot of ££ and I am delighted. Looking through the history that came with it I can see that it spent 12 years in Spain, had a new engine 50,000 miles ago and a new clutch 18,000 miles ago. Mileage of 116k looks genuine. All fluid levels are fine and steady and it drives well - 1500 miles in it so far. It has only done a few thousand miles over the last 3 years  and there have been a couple of  minor issues inc new exhaust manifold gaskets, a recon starter (glad I didn't replace it myself!) and currently it has a sticky brake calliper. I would guess these are as much to do with being laid up for a while. Comfortable to drive and powerful enough for what I use it for.

I will see if I can make it over to Donegal next week.... but 3 kids under 9 cramps my style these days.

Regards

 

Phil

Donegal G
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Re: New to G Wagen - 230 ge G460

Hi Phil ,best of luck with your new purchase looks tidy,,would love to see you and family at the Donegal event where we are expecting at least 10 g wagens including another 230 owner who is taking along his 2 young sons.You will get to know fellow owners who have had years of experience owning these fantastic vehicles .Contact me for more details Eunan .

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Re: New to G Wagen - 230 ge G460

 those are the same narrow 16" alloys that I had on a ge280, I think the original rubber was only 205 but your tyre dealer should be able to tell you how far you can go, nice looking truck

cox.adrian
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Re: New to G Wagen - 230 ge G460

prwales wrote:

 those are the same narrow 16" alloys that I had on a ge280, I think the original rubber was only 205 but your tyre dealer should be able to tell you how far you can go, nice looking truck

  i had the same 16 inch wheels 300gd  deliverd with 16/70/205 tires

  went 16/70/ 235 cooper tires no problem but would not go bigger IMO

  

GDown
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Re: New to G Wagen - 230 ge G460

Thanks for the replies guys. I went for stock tyres save for the width which is now 215. I understand this was an option for these rims during the eighties.

Currently trying to track down a front (nearside) rumble over about 45 mph that sounds like a wheel bearing - but there is no play whatsoever in the wheel. I am going to grease the prop shafts and see if that makes any difference but if there are any other bright ideas... they would be gratefully received

 

Regards

 

Phil

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Re: New to G Wagen - 230 ge G460

GDown wrote:

Thanks for the replies guys. I went for stock tyres save for the width which is now 215. I understand this was an option for these rims during the eighties.

Currently trying to track down a front (nearside) rumble over about 45 mph that sounds like a wheel bearing - but there is no play whatsoever in the wheel. I am going to grease the prop shafts and see if that makes any difference but if there are any other bright ideas... they would be gratefully received

 

Regards

 

Phil

Come to Carndonagh Donegal at the weekend we'd all love to see you and your G

Gordon