Its the years, not the milelage... lesson from Axle rebuild
I've just started rebuilding the set of W463 Axles and VG150 Transfer case that are going on my rally truck.
Couple of interesting things were the locking nuts on the rear shafts (should have been torqued to 400-500NM, but were loose enough to almost un-do by hand even with locking tabs set) and the following photo of seals (rear axle) which reminded me that mileage aside, its the deterioration that comes with age that you have to look out for.
These axles were shipped from Graz in 1991; truck was relatively low miles but the rubber seals have hardened to the point where they crumble in your hands - even though the rest of the diff and box looks pretty good.
As I say, it doesn't much matter here as its all being replaced (with some new shafts and CVs from RCV Racing while I have it apart), but when buying any truck of this age I makes you think that whatever else looks right (low mileage, tidfy bodywork etc) you can't get away from this kind of thing and whether it becomes a problem is as as much luck as anything else.
That's amazing that the seals have disintegrated like that... and I thought that landrover seals were cheap and crap!
Having said that.... I don't suppose there are any LR seals still in place and not leaking from 1991...
RCV...cant go wrong there..but o so expensive..
That's amazing that the seals have disintegrated like that... and I thought that landrover seals were cheap and crap!
Having said that.... I don't suppose there are any LR seals still in place and not leaking from 1991...
I think that's right - MB seals are perfectly good, it just the years that does it. Other seals, CV boos etc were all in the same condition. I thin the truck they were fitted too was in general well looked after (oil in diffs was in good condition, I filtered it out and found no particles etc amd there doesn't seem to be any wear to the pinion at all).
I don't know what a regular mechanic would charge to do all of these; I'd guess the whole job is around 6-8 hours to do front and back by the time you have mucked around. Bearings have to be pressed off and then the SM says heated to get them back on (though I will probably press).
I think its probably safe to assume that many of the trucks that are around of this age will be suffering from the same problem. I'll take apart the old (86) W460 axles when I take them off to have a look, but I suspect they will be even worse.
Did your rear axle have the oil seal/neoprene the diff side of the bearing which I presume is to keep oil on the bearing on extreme slopes etc? Some seem to have these or maybe they just gave up fitting those as well? That seal only a hand fit on the shaft. Fitted a new rear oil seal and bearing but still a bit of play there, which I presume in axle housing. This seal fell to bits but the main one was fine.
Tho Gaz seems to have sorted his with an insert?
Did your rear axle have the oil seal/neoprene the diff side of the bearing which I presume is to keep oil on the bearing on extreme slopes etc? Some seem to have these or maybe they just gave up fitting those as well? That seal only a hand fit on the shaft. Fitted a new rear oil seal and bearing but still a bit of play there, which I presume in axle housing. This seal fell to bits but the main one was fine.
Tho Gaz seems to have sorted his with an insert?
I haven't yet go the diff apart, so I'll let you know.
Which bearings did you replace? in the diff or axle?
'You break it, we'll replace it... no questions asked' - They stand by their guarantee and reading reviews everyone rates them.
I'm not sure what a set of MB CVs runs to? £250? Shipped these are around £500 a side (I'm debating on whether to use their half-shafts at the same time), but MB CVs do have a reputation for failure under extreme conditions (am I right in thinking that this is one area where the W463s are uprated vs W460 though?) and again this falls into the category of 'its good insurance' for the application.
Once the axles, diff and transfer box are rebuilt then pretty much the entire drive train will be factory-new condition. My nagging worry (that I've talked with Mike a about a few times) is that each time you up-rate one thing in the chain, the chances that you'll break something further up increases (which probably means high cost when it does!).
My principle worry now is the TC. Its rated to 1500Nm - so probably has 20% headroom I suppose. The new engine in theory could make 700-800Nm though, so in first and second, an abusive right foot could break it. There aren't any upgrades for it that I know of though, so I'll have to learn to drive it properly!
They certainly stand by their promise.... Broke 2 of the cv's so far. They replaced the first no questions asked, still need to tell them about the second.
Halfshafts ok so far. Cv's can need a bit of work on the splines to make them fit properly in the hub.
Regards
Richard
Wow, OK so what were the circumstances they broke under?
Did you go with their shafts too?
My application is desert racing so no full-lock rock climbing type stuff (which is what normally breaks them I know).
Given your first hand account on warranty though, my order will go in tomorrow.
Wow, OK so what were the circumstances they broke under?
Did you go with their shafts too?
My application is desert racing so no full-lock rock climbing type stuff (which is what normally breaks them I know).
Given your first hand account on warranty though, my order will go in tomorrow.
If the half shaft is the foot long heavy piece of metal that connects the power train (and looks like a small dumbbell). Yes the do break and they are around £430 for the part alone. I know, as I have had one replaced. Heard a whirring noise and the truck would not change gear smoothly, so I had an idea and shifted it into Neutral and then back into drive - big bang and free spinning engine, no drive. Probably should not have done it on the M4 at 70 MPH, but it was broken anyway and I am sticking to that
Spider1V
I think, Spider, that's probably the propshaft you are talking about 
and on the G500 (I think I'm right in saying) they use a CV rather than a UJ as on the earlier trucks.
CVs for that application can be smoother and will tolerate greater angles too, but probably aren't quite as bullet proof (when they fail you often can't rebuild them).
The bit we are talking about is the CV on the front axle half shaft, which is similar (and some 4x4s do use UJs on those too - though not on a G). Obviously the CV on the front axle takes a real battering (power drine through it at angles) and on all Gs is it one well known weak spot.
Hi,
Yes, I have the halfshafts as well.
To elaborate: two sets of halfshafts and cv installed in 2g's. One set in mine, 606powered swb, haven't broken anything, yet. The Other in a 5.6 v8 swb. This is the one that has broken two of them.
First breakage occured driving up a very steep and rocky incline, the G slipped backwards while still under power and fully locked. The left front tyre caught on a huge rock on the way down. Something had to give which was the cv, difflock and diff!
The second time the G was trying to reverse out of a mud hole and once again caught on a submerged rock, snap went the cv again. On the plus side we can now change out a cv in the field in under 1 hour!
Richard
RCV Axles and CVs arrived.. serious pieces of engineering and look/ feel much more substantial than the MB originals.
New shafts are same dimensions as the original 463 items but made from 4340 of 300M steel (claim for 2x OEM strength) and they can now supply these for the 463 (though given that they were my cad files that they created them from perhaps just hang on until I have fitted them to check they are right!)
these are the ones to have for sure..Tony baskill used them, think he still does.
OMG !!
rgds hus
oppps always getting my shafts mixed up.
Spider1V
Those shafts for 1475mm or for 1555mm axles?
Sorry that this is a little bit of an old thread, but hopefully someone can still answer this question. You have all expressed a certain amount of maintenance on your G's. This is my biggest concern when considering buying one. Can you give me a rough estimate of how much you think you spend a year on maintenance and replacing parts?
I'm assuming the majority of people run into suspension issues at some point, and as was posted above, there can be problems with corrosion. Judging by the number of posts that talk about gear box issues or prop shaft.
I guess I just want to be sure that it doesn't end up being even more expensive than anticipated. Also, where do you guys get your parts from? For my regular car I can find everything I need easily online for usually a good price - have used these guys before: http://www.mister-auto.co.uk/en/- but I assume the regular routes won't cut it for finding the right G parts. So where oh where do you wonderful people find your parts, and again....how much do parts usually run you? I know, I know, parts differ and so do their prices. I guess I just mean are parts for a G usually on the more expensive side compared to other off-road vehicles? Does anyone have a site I can check out to gage prices?
And what other maintenance can I realistically be looking forward to if I do make the investment. I know I'm a little anal, but knowing as much as possible ahead of time will make the buying process easier for me.
G Wagens are to a large extent a parts bin vehicle.
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'You break it, we'll replace it... no questions asked' - They stand by their guarantee and reading reviews everyone rates them.
I'm not sure what a set of MB CVs runs to? £250? Shipped these are around £500 a side (I'm debating on whether to use their half-shafts at the same time), but MB CVs do have a reputation for failure under extreme conditions (am I right in thinking that this is one area where the W463s are uprated vs W460 though?) and again this falls into the category of 'its good insurance' for the application.
Once the axles, diff and transfer box are rebuilt then pretty much the entire drive train will be factory-new condition. My nagging worry (that I've talked with Mike a about a few times) is that each time you up-rate one thing in the chain, the chances that you'll break something further up increases (which probably means high cost when it does!).
My principle worry now is the TC. Its rated to 1500Nm - so probably has 20% headroom I suppose. The new engine in theory could make 700-800Nm though, so in first and second, an abusive right foot could break it. There aren't any upgrades for it that I know of though, so I'll have to learn to drive it properly!