Door rubbers/seals

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Janscheepers
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Today after a few says of solid rain and a short drive I am noticing that the bottom of the rear door sills are wet. I removed the plastic sill covers and noticed that underneath it is wet as well. Have removed both door sills and left open to dry. I hence started to check all doors and noticed the driver side (lhd) slightly humid as well just around the bottom rubber section of the door. I assume this means the door seal rubbers need replacing all around given they are 14 years old but before I get this done at the MB dealer next time she goes in can someone let me know if they have had similar issues and the door seals are in fact the items to be changed. 

Rgds

Pistonhead
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

I am a little dubious about you door seals to be an issue. How can water rise above the seal line to collect?

Could be water ingress from else where - do have it checked out.

fredecosse
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

Hi

I would be very surprised if water comes thoughts your door seals as Rakesh has mentioned .. Usually from windscreen wipers fittings !!!   Check them out . 

Janscheepers
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

Ok, a mystery...will have it checked out. 

hus55
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

external horizontal rubber window fittings perish in time..when they do , water enters from the gap created between window and rubber fitting. water comes in through and finds its way over the door rubber and inside the sills.

 

how are the carpets? if wet fred has a point. also check the water release valve in the fresh air intake is open. it often gets clogged with alsorts of debris like leafs,dust etc...

 

rgds hus

Janscheepers
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

I had a proper look today to locate the source and still non the wiser. All sills have been affected except the front passenger side which was dry as a whistle. I removed all the sills lifted out the bottom of the rubber door seals and dried the areas, the seals themselves were drenched and only the carpets slightly where it connects to the sills. All the door rubber seals themselves look fine with no tears in the rubber. I also removed the drivers carpeting in full and found no dampness or signs of water ingress coming thought the front anywhere. Hmmm.

Spider1V
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

Hmmmm

G500? Quite possibly because its such an awesome truck the sheer power forces the ingress of the water! I would suggest slowing down while you drive? laugh

On a more serious note:

1. Check and clean the side guttering by each windscreen pillar, these can get full of grime over the years and clog up causing the water to pool in the roof guttering and finding all sorts of ways to get in.

2. Check and clean the sun roof - if fitted. Be careful and watch the drain holes as they have small, fragile plastic tubes that can tear if you push too hard.

3. If water ingress is still a problem, then look at the windscreen wiper spindles AND check around the front windscreen seal?

4. While not un common, then I would check the door seals, and take a look at the wire seals as well (mine are now falling to pieces) they are the little rubber bits that protect the wires leading from the door to the car and look like a concertina.

In the time that I have had mine I have needed to replace only two of the door seals - (both rear) as over time they lose their elasticity and can fail - i.e stay squashed when the doors are open and not spring back in to shape. Once changed all should be OK (well was in  mine) from time to time like to leave the rear doors open and spray some silicon gun oil on the seals as it kept them nice an bouncy. try not to use a petroleum based product as it will eat away the rubber quite quickly.

HTH

Spider1V

Janscheepers
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

Thanks for the fellow g500 power talk..unfortunately I checked this morning and the water comes in when the car is parked !  I followed your advice as follows.

1. All ok and clear.

2. Also all ok and clear of grime.

3. All in order and no play on the wiper spindle as per Rakesh suggestions.

4. Wire seals need replacing but that area is very dry. 

Running out of options now...

Rakesh, what is next to check?

 

Spider1V
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

Janscheepers wrote:

Thanks for the fellow g500 power talk..unfortunately I checked this morning and the water comes in when the car is parked !  I followed your advice as follows.

1. All ok and clear.

2. Also all ok and clear of grime.

3. All in order and no play on the wiper spindle as per Rakesh suggestions.

4. Wire seals need replacing but that area is very dry. 

Running out of options now...

Rakesh, what is next to check?

point 3 did you also check the seals around the windscreen? I did notice on one occasion I had parked in such a way (one wheel on kerb, one in a hole and two on level road) that I did get some water ingressions through the sun roof.... just a thought.

 

Spider1V

JASONGDS
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

Have you checked sunroof drain holes in sills, at front and back of sills just under an inch rubber with 3 small holes that are ment to let water drain from the sunroof, can get blocked up from debris from wheels etc. Unfortunately you have to get under car to check these.

Janscheepers
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

Thanks, i checked these and they draining the water fine while I put water through the top drains in the sunroof. It's doing my head in as I still haven't figured it out. I am due for a dealer call on this coming tues to get a new exhaust system and prefer to find the source so they may attack that at the same time..otherwise he is bound to tell me I need all kinds of unnecessary items changed and charge me a fortune...

LEONIDAS
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

 As the driver's door has more use than the  passenger's door, the permanent deformation of the rubber of he seal is more pronounced. i,e, it has lost shape and resilience and consequently sealing ability.

 Have you tried adjusting the door and ensure that the lower section has a good fit???

Unfortunately due to the design of the  seal, it is difficult to raise it by inserting  some padding underneath. As a test , try a straight ruler between the body and the door and check how the door sets. If the door panel at the lower part is "sticking out" , there may be some room for adjusting the door inwards thereby increasing the pressure against the seal.

Failing this, a new seal may be needed.

tony.bruegger
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

2 people ,one with hose pipe and one inside vehicle with lamp , probably wiper spindle seals

LEONIDAS
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

Yes,  a hose test is the best  way and preferably  performed when it is dark so that a good torch can pick up any water trickling.

. However, the OP mentioned that the seals of the door  were found to be wet. I cannot see how a leaking wiper spindle seal can make the door seal wet.

axel
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

wiper spindles and a leaking screen can make the door seal wet.

 the water builds up under the mats and finds its way out through the bottom of the seal trickling out giving the impression the seal is leaking / truth is - it is leaking  but not in the direction you think / check for water coming in from the common g wagen areas  - the water has to find its way out somewhere and the joint in the rubber door seal is the way / lift your carpet  or mats up and it will be awash.

LEONIDAS
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

So why does it leak from the rear door, the driver's door and not from the passenger's door?

tony.bruegger
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

Aah - diagnosis at a distance -

  

Steve Kirk
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

The easy way to check door seals is to trap a piece of standard A4 paper in the door..move it around the door frame checking the whole seal......if it grips the paper the seal is ok....if the paper is loose adjust the door until it grips......

 

SK

bigblock
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

Have you checked the horizontal seal at the bottom of the door windows as Huss suggested.  These harden over time and create a gap between the window and the seal allowing water to pass through the door.

There are two small vents at the base of the door and if these are blocked then the water will build up inside the door and pass over the door seal onto the carpet.

If you only have water penetration around the drivers door and rear doors then that would suggest it is more likely to be the window seals than wiper spindles etc etc.

 

LEONIDAS
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

Yes, I know all this is a  bit of a big mystery, However, I am certain after a series of hose tests that in my case, though the  door seal will pass the "paper test" as suggested, I can  still see water seeping through the radiused section at the forward lower end ( just  below  the  vicinity of the bottom hinge) of the rubber seal.

Anyway, I am fitting a new seal and will report results to anybody who may still be interested in this wet story.

hus55
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

bigblock. i mentioned this as you have too now..

 

got no reply.....

 

i bet its this ... how do i know......??

 

 

good luck.

 

hus

bigblock
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

hus55 wrote:

bigblock. i mentioned this as you have too now..

 

got no reply.....

 

i bet its this ... how do i know......??

 

 

good luck.

 

hus

 

It is a bit frustrating isn't it Huss.

I will try a different approach.

Hey Janscheepers , make sure that you don't check the door window seal. It will definetly not be the bottom window strip letting in water. Do not read my previous post or the one from Huss we do not know the answer.

We have never encountered this problem before and we do not know what the solution is, it must be as you said a complete mystery. cheeky

 

 

 

Spider1V
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

Now, Now children let behave! angel

I think I had it right up at the top, he just needs to slow down to redress the water ingress.....cool

Spider1V

Steve Kirk
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

He could park it in a field in Somerset......that might identify the ingress point.........cheeky

David J. Pearson
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

Had the same last year on my 500 with a lot of water ingress. Re-newed door seal. problem solved.

Still have a similar recurring  problem with the 230. Renewing the door inner membrane seems to work for a while then problem returns. I'm thinking of doing the door seals on that too.

David

hus55
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

seems to be quiet round here.

maybe the problem has been solved. :)))

 

rgds hus

Janscheepers
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

Wow, that is some serious feedback all..thanks

glad to report that it is the door seals even after the dealer adjusted the doors. It seeps in through the front and trickles down to form a pool on the inner seal. You can also see that the rubber is slightly deformed in the front and the whole seal is wet. Under normal condition when the seal still has it's shape it only allows the outer rim to be wet and where the door pushes on it, it stays dry.. .

On a side note I managed to get to the Geneva car show today and saw the awesome brabus 6x6 in the flesh..wow..it is the size of a unimog.

I also had a look at the new g63 that was exposed and guess what, I checked the door seals!!! Haha. The new version has an additional lip added to the rubber that is only connected to one side making the seal submarine hatch water tight...am sure it can be fitted on the older models as well. 

Thanks again for the feedback.

Jan

 

 

 

 

Janscheepers
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

The old gremlins came back over the last few months and has done my head in for a while whilst I used the old elimination method to see what the origin of the leaks were. Both front bottom seals were again drenched after rain. The lower outside rubber seals on all windows have been replaced and after a few solid days of rain it seems to have solved the water ingress. One to bear in mind for people having similar issues. Took a while to trace !                  

Rgds

 

 

 

Spider1V
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

 

HI Jan,

Shame to see its back - Huss posted a pic of the new door seals (on FB?), and I like them (though probably not the cost) much better design! Gav any chance of finding out if they can fit the Older G's and frighten us with the price?

Spider1V

cox.adrian
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

     ive asked what model G s they will fit and price ?

     waiting reply

   so it looks like the G63 rubber seals will not fit

  

No not changeable

Both seals (with/without extra lip) are in our production in use

Janscheepers
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

The issue came back but not the door seals but this time the rubber seal strip on the door ledge where it adheres to the bottom of the window. Guess they just got old and lost their elasticity and allowed water to seep through into the door. Rather than going out through the holes on the inner outside of the door it seeped  through between the plastic moulding and the inner side of the door ending up drenching the bottom seal and floor well mats. 

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Re: Door rubbers/seals

hus55 wrote:

external horizontal rubber window fittings perish in time..when they do , water enters from the gap created between window and rubber fitting. water comes in through and finds its way over the door rubber and inside the sills.

 

The window seal strips never form a perfect seal, but they do reduce the amount of water entering the door cavity. There should be some drains holes - to drain the cavity - at the bottom of the door, external to the main door seal. Might be worth checking that these are not blocked with dirt. Also, whilst in there, its worth treating the lower internal door metal with some cavity wax, (taking care not to block the drain holes).

markhowes
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

Oh dear - I seem to have the same or a similar problem. Water getting inside and making carpet wet - especially drivers side (RHD).

I've already ordered new horizontal seals that go at the bottom of outside of windows as existing ones are brittle and ends have cracked.

But today, after very heavy rain, it seems obvious that the water is getting in via the sunroof and most probably the sunroof drains.

So I have a couple of questions:

1/ Can someone give me exact way of locating the drain outlets so I can check that they are clear

2/ If I open the sunroof (when it eventually stops raining) is there a safe way to clear the drain tubes from the top all the way down to the bottom without risk of damaging them?

3/ If the sunroof is closed is water supposed to get into the drains or does my situation indicate that a new sunroof seal is needed (assuming that there is such a thing)?

If none of the above work then am I right in thinking that the only way to "mend" or replace the drains is to remove the headlining (horrible job by the sound of it).

I've already removed the carpet but bulkhead perfectly dry after rain - which hopefully means wiper spindles and windscreen surrounds not culprits (they all seem in really good condition anyway).

Have checked drain holes at base of doors but they are also clear.

 

Mark

 

Arnie
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

There are two, rubber sleeved cable entries from the engine bay into the passenger compartment : One on the drivers side and one on the passenger side, at about battery level, just below the gutter rail on the bulkhead. I had to put some silicone sealant to seal the contact between the grommet edge of rubber boot and the hole in the bulkhead as water was getting through this ( when jet washed).

Otherwise, as mentioned above, check

  • For cracks in the wiper spindle covers; pack the covers with waterproof grease.
  • Door seal rubbers
  • Water drain holes in door  corners
  • Check plastic sheet i behind door cards
  • Broken concertina cable boots in door hinge area
  • Small plastic plugs in door frame near hinges
  • Condition of door light switch
  • Sunroof drain holes and condition of sunroof seals
  • Drain holes in air-vent box under the bonnet
  • Condition of windscreen rubber seal

 

 

 

 

Arnie
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

markhowes wrote:

Oh dear - I seem to have the same or a similar problem. Water getting inside and making carpet wet - especially drivers side (RHD).

I've already ordered new horizontal seals that go at the bottom of outside of windows as existing ones are brittle and ends have cracked.

But today, after very heavy rain, it seems obvious that the water is getting in via the sunroof and most probably the sunroof drains.

So I have a couple of questions:

1/ Can someone give me exact way of locating the drain outlets so I can check that they are clear

2/ If I open the sunroof (when it eventually stops raining) is there a safe way to clear the drain tubes from the top all the way down to the bottom without risk of damaging them?

3/ If the sunroof is closed is water supposed to get into the drains or does my situation indicate that a new sunroof seal is needed (assuming that there is such a thing)?

If none of the above work then am I right in thinking that the only way to "mend" or replace the drains is to remove the headlining (horrible job by the sound of it).

I've already removed the carpet but bulkhead perfectly dry after rain - which hopefully means wiper spindles and windscreen surrounds not culprits (they all seem in really good condition anyway).

Have checked drain holes at base of doors but they are also clear.

 

Mark

 

 

 

1. Drain holes are on front left and right of sunroof, connected to a plastic sub-tray

2. A flexible steel cable like from a bicycle brake may fit as long as the wire strands are taped at he ends to prevent hem splaying-out.

3. The sunroof seal, even when new is not a perfect seal, hence drain holes.

 

 

 

JASONGDS
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

Re Sun Roof  Drain Holes, on my early 463 these are in the sills , 2 per side about half inch with 3 small holes in which can get clogged up from muck off road etc. East to see if you peer under car. If you pour water into the sunroof you should see it come out of these drain holes.

I used Strimmer nylon wire to clear from above.

Roly
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

There are also 2 sunroof drain holes on L and R at the rear. Pour water into the tray to find the outlets, when it stops raining, of course

I think it unlikely that the tubes are blocked as they are 1/2". Possibly the outlet could be foulded.

markhowes
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

Many thanks to all - especially for suggestion to use strimmer line.

Nice sunny day today so have:

1/ Cleared out some muck from drains using strimmer line and made sure 2 plastic outlets with 3 holes each are clear.

2/ Poured some nice soapy hot water down both drain holes at the front corners and seeks to flow well on both sides.

3/ Given the seal around the sunroof opening a good clean with soapy water to get rid of all that grean, almost mosslike, gunge. Should I treat this seal with anything to improve its sealing qualities and help it live longer?

Left sunroof and car windows open to help dry out interior.

Am happy that drain on passenger side is all good

BUT

the draining water on the drivers side mostly comes out of a hole at the end of furthest forward floorpan stiffening strut (sorry, I'm sure that's not the correct technical term) as well as a dribble from the correct drain outlet just in front of that.

So, I figure that the drain tube on the drivers side is broken or if there are joins has become separated so that water starts off in the drain but then somewhere most goes out of the tube and goes down the cavity that encloses the tube.

Does anyone have a diagram/pictures of where the drain tube goes so I can check for breaks or any other suggestions would be really appreciated (G too high to get under my garage door).

Are there drain holes at the rear on the SWB G (didn't check there)?

Mark

 


 

markhowes
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Re: Door rubbers/seals

Ignore previous question regarding rear drains in SWB 463 sunroof. I found the outlets under the sills but the drains in the sunroof are hidden by the roof lining. Bit wary about pouring water into tray to check rear drains at the moment.

Would like to sort out drivers side front drain first and then worry about rears if problem persists.

Mark

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Re: Door rubbers/seals

Not sure if this applies to you but no one has mentioned it. If you have a battery above the fuse box and against the firewall check the bolt that holds it down is in place and sealed as water collects in the tray and can run straight into the footwell. Is your water coming in from this high up in the footwell?

markhowes
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No. Battery tray all looks good (and dry).

Have removed carpets from footwells but bulkhead inside also completely dry even in heavy rain. The problem now seems limited to the drivers side (opposite side to battery tray).

Heavy rain here today so will have a better idea tomorrow (when it's supposed to be fine) whether the clean up done yesterday has solved the problem. If not then will have to think about replacing sunroof seal and investigate whether metal drains at front corners have become corroded or disintegrated or become dislocated from plastic drain tubes. But I'm sure that both of these operations will require the removal of the head lining.

It would be really helpful to know what the underside of the sunroof tray and metal drains is supposed to look like before I go down that route - so if anyone has pictures of what is revealed by removing headlining that would be very much appreciated. I hought that there was at least one picture already posted somewhere but now can't find it.

Mark

 

 

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Re: Door rubbers/seals

I'm a newbie here, but I couldn't resist digging up this old post to make an observation that I hope can be helpful to others. On my 1990 G LWB, I noticed a gap along the roof gutter at the a-pillar.  There is a transition piece of metal (?aluminum) that is on the vertical plane as the steel gutter turns the corner to join with the aluminum gutter riveted adjacent to the windscreen. But the steel gutter, continuous with the roof, loses it vertical profile in that zone.  So...water comes down the gutter flowing forward and then escapes through a tiny gap at the a-pillar and then back flows over the doors and floods the seals from above.

I was looking at epic, and I think Mine may be missing a piece in the zone, or the chap that painted it cut out some steel corrosion of the gutter at the a-pillar.  I've searched and searched the net and cannot find a photo of the steel gutter in that zone, but mine definitely leaks.  Anyone have a photo from above of the a-pillar transition zone?  

Hopefully this helps.