Cold start issues, and rough running when idling on warm engine.

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Athar_C
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Hello All,

I'm looking for some advice please, I have three issues with my 300GE, issue 1 & 2 may or may not be related. I have a 1995 300GE (463.228 variant) with the M103.987 engine (6cyl petrol).

Issue 1:

Cold Starting, the engine takes a little longer to start than expected, when it’s cold, a couple of seconds of turning maybe 3-5 secs sometimes. When it’s warm its starts absolutely fine. I suspect it may be the cold start value, or the electrics/relays to the cold start value? Could be the OVP relay?

Issue 2:

A bit more worrying, this has only happened about 3 times since I bought the car 12 months ago. Plus this ONLY happens when the car is warm.

When I come to a stop (i.e. idling) after I have been driving normally for some time, the engine idle drops very low, and the engine almost seems to ‘splutter’ and want to stall, in fact it has stalled once. Also when trying to pull away after this happens, it runs a little rough then settles into smooth running again (when it gains revs).

I've googled the symptoms and it almost like a got sticky EGR valve, but funnily enough, it appears as if this engine doesn’t have an Exhaust Gas Re-circulation (EGR) valve! I could be wrong, but I’ve looked for an EGR value on the M103.987 and i can’t find one. Appreciate if someone confirm this please?

It could be a number of things, perhaps the Idle Control value (ICR)? Bad Fuel pump relay (but why would it happen only when idling or coming to a stop from normal driving)? Poor fuel pressure? My suspicion is a faulty sensor or value somewhere. Or another bad OVP issue perhaps?

Issue 3:

Rear Wiper, the intermittent action does not seems to be working, when I turn the rear wiper on intermittent, it is constantly in action, and when I turn it off, it does not retreat back to correct upper position, it just stays where it was when I turn the switch off. Again I suspect it is probably a relay problem?

 

I did open the fuse box to see the relays, and I have seen a diagram of the relays on paper, but I have no idea which relay is which, apart from the OVP which is obvious to spot. Any help via pictures on identifying the relays (Rear intermittent relay and the fuel pump relay) would be a great help !

 

Any advice on these issues from all those experienced G owners out there and tech wizards, will be very much appreciated.

Many thanks

Athar

Pistonhead
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Location: Loughborough
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Re: Cold start issues, and rough running when idling on warm ...

Hello Athar,

I need to be brief as my broadband time is limited. 

Your problems 1 and 2 could be related. 

Check and IF necessary renew your distributor cap and rotor arm as these tend to burn out circa 70 - 80000 miles but do check first don't go changing because I have suggested it as has been done by some in the past.

Secondly there could be an air leak in the induction system. Using an aerosol brake cleaner CAREFULY spray in small quantities around the inlet tract and injector seals. Do not spray near any high tension electrical wires such as ignition leads etc as the contents of the aerosol can is highly inflammable!

Your difficult starting could be through the mentioned air leak or infact an auxiliary fuel injector issue.

Check these items out and come back, we shall see on how to proceed from there.

The rear wiper has a control box that could be the issue, I don't know where it is on the vehicle.

Your model does not have an EGR valve.

Got to go now. - Sorrry.

Arnie
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Re: Cold start issues, and rough running when idling on warm ...

See below in RED

 

Athar_C wrote:

Hello All,

I'm looking for some advice please, I have three issues with my 300GE, issue 1 & 2 may or may not be related. I have a 1995 300GE (463.228 variant) with the M103.987 engine (6cyl petrol).

Issue 1:

Cold Starting, the engine takes a little longer to start than expected, when it’s cold, a couple of seconds of turning maybe 3-5 secs sometimes. When it’s warm its starts absolutely fine. I suspect it may be the cold start value, or the electrics/relays to the cold start value? Could be the OVP relay?


Check that the one-way valve on the fuel-pump (the one under the rear nearside wheel-arch) is OK, The longer starting may be as a result of fuel draining back to the tank, requiring longer priming. But as mentioned by Rakesh, a good starting point would be to replace distributor cap, rotor, spark-plugs and possibly the ignition leads, if you don't know when they were last changed. The cap and rotor tend to last about 15k miles on these engines. Whilst under there, change the fuel filter.

 

Issue 2:

A bit more worrying, this has only happened about 3 times since I bought the car 12 months ago. Plus this ONLY happens when the car is warm.

When I come to a stop (i.e. idling) after I have been driving normally for some time, the engine idle drops very low, and the engine almost seems to ‘splutter’ and want to stall, in fact it has stalled once. Also when trying to pull away after this happens, it runs a little rough then settles into smooth running again (when it gains revs).

Sounds like the Idle Control Valve is dirty and sticking. Remove it, Clean it out with some petrol or alcohol and lubricate the internal rotor slightly with a few drops of clean engine oil and replace
.

I've googled the symptoms and it almost like a got sticky EGR valve, but funnily enough, it appears as if this engine doesn’t have an Exhaust Gas Re-circulation (EGR) valve! I could be wrong, but I’ve looked for an EGR value on the M103.987 and i can’t find one. Appreciate if someone confirm this please?

No EGR valve. thank god ! (unless you have a California engine)

It could be a number of things, perhaps the Idle Control value (ICR)? Bad Fuel pump relay (but why would it happen only when idling or coming to a stop from normal driving)? Poor fuel pressure? My suspicion is a faulty sensor or value somewhere. Or another bad OVP issue perhaps?

Issue 3:

Rear Wiper, the intermittent action does not seems to be working, when I turn the rear wiper on intermittent, it is constantly in action, and when I turn it off, it does not retreat back to correct upper position, it just stays where it was when I turn the switch off. Again I suspect it is probably a relay problem?


There is a wiper timer relay. this may be the problem

 

I did open the fuse box to see the relays, and I have seen a diagram of the relays on paper, but I have no idea which relay is which, apart from the OVP which is obvious to spot. Any help via pictures on identifying the relays (Rear intermittent relay and the fuel pump relay) would be a great help !

 

Any advice on these issues from all those experienced G owners out there and tech wizards, will be very much appreciated.

Many thanks

Athar

Athar_C
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Joined: 25.05.2015
Re: Cold start issues, and rough running when idling on warm ...

Many thanks for getting back to me Piston head

About 500 miles ago I changed the rotor arm and dist cap precisely because I had starting issues, it was fine after that. Not sure it could be the same issue. But I will give your other ideas a try soon. Will let u know. Thanks 

 

 

 

Athar_C
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Re: Cold start issues, and rough running when idling on warm ...

 

 

Thanks for getting back Arnie I've actually ordered a Bosch idle control valve online, I'll replace the old one and see how it goes. Will keep you posted . I changed the dist cap and rotor arm only 500 miles ago for proper Bosch ones not sure that could be the problem again 

 

 

 

Pistonhead
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Re: Cold start issues, and rough running when idling on warm ...

Doubt the distributor cap within 500 miles. But I am not looking at you cap so I cannot say.

I can only think of checking the fuel emissions on your engine which should read between 0.5% to 1.5% preferably set between 0.5% to a 1% range for my liking. You will need a garage to do this unless you have an emission meter. There are some DIY spec meters on the market.

Intermittent cut out could also be due to carbon build up in the throttle body; the fuel metering body has to be lifted to gain access to the throttle body. Before you decide to clean this and take to this course of action do so after my initial suggestions.

Remote diagnosis is not easy at best of times I had forgotten to suggest or ask when was the fuel filter last changed? These should be renewed at every 36,000 mile on your model. 

Arnie's comments are valid of course. 

Athar_C
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Re: Cold start issues, and rough running when idling on warm ...

Well I had the Idle Control Valve changed.

However still got the intermittent lumpy idle. Its only when its in gear (D or R). If it's in Neutral appears OK.

I haven't checked any of the vacuum hoses yet, but do you think that could be causing the issue? because the problem only occurs when in gear?

Thanks

 

Pistonhead
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Re: Cold start issues, and rough running when idling on warm ...

You may find that the throttle body will be in need of cleaning off carbon build up. For this the fuel metering body needs to be removed to get at the throttle body and clean with de-carboniser.