Are these any good??
As the title suggests, as I am currently a newbie to the forum and hoping to purchase a wagen for around £10-£14k,I have come across these two. Both the same price, but one has circa 100k more miles, yet the lower mileage one has had extensive works carried out. Opinions/thoughts please on both.
Was swaying towards blue/black GES.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201409267721475/sort/defau...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201409247651155/sort/defau...
Thank you
Talking Performance
Huge gap between them
I hope that will help
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Mercedes-Benz 300 GD Station Wagon swb automatic |
Mercedes-Benz G 300 Station Wagon swb automatic |
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1991 |
1993 |
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Country of origin: |
D Germany |
D Germany |
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Sales markets: |
- Europe |
- Europe |
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Make: |
Mercedes-Benz |
Mercedes-Benz |
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Model: |
G-Class 463 series |
G-Class 463 series |
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1990- |
1990- |
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Submodel: |
G W463 swb Station Wagon |
G W463 swb Station Wagon |
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1990-2011 |
1990-2011 |
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EEC segmentation: |
J (D) (sport utility cars and off-road vehicles - large cars) |
J (D) (sport utility cars and off-road vehicles - large cars) |
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Class: |
mid-size off-road / SUV (sport utility vehicle) |
mid-size off-road / SUV (sport utility vehicle) |
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Body style: |
off-road wagon |
off-road wagon |
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Doors: |
3 |
3 |
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Traction: |
4x4 full-time (all-wheel drive permanent 50/50), transfer case 1.05/2.16 |
4x4 full-time (all-wheel drive permanent 50/50), transfer case 1.05/2.16 |
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DIMENSIONS & CAPACITIES |
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Length: |
4185 mm / 164.8 in |
4180 mm / 164.6 in |
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Width: |
1690 mm / 66.5 in |
1690 mm / 66.5 in |
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Height: |
1967 mm / 77.4 in |
1931 mm / 76 in |
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Wheelbase: |
2400 mm / 94.5 in |
2400 mm / 94.5 in |
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Fuel: |
96 liter / 25.4 U.S. gal / 21.1 imp. gal |
96 liter / 25.4 U.S. gal / 21.1 imp. gal |
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Legroom: |
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1st row: |
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2nd row: |
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3rd row: |
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Shoulder room: |
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1st row: |
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2nd row: |
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3rd row: |
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Headroom: |
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1st row: |
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2nd row: |
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3rd row: |
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EPA passenger volume: |
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Calc. passenger volume: |
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for two rows: |
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Trunk cap. claimed: |
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Trunk cap. SAE: |
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Trunk cap. VDA: |
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Turning circle btw. walls: |
11.29 m / 37 ft |
11.29 m / 37 ft |
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Turning circle btw. curbs: |
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Drag coefficient claimed: |
0.54 |
0.54 |
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Drag coefficient estimated: |
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WEIGHTS |
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Curb weight claimed |
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(without a driver): |
2090 kg / 4608 lbs |
2085 kg / 4597 lbs |
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Dry weight claimed: |
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Shipping weight claimed: |
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Curb weight estimated: |
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Total weight: |
2620 kg / 5776 lbs |
2710 kg / 5974 lbs |
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POWERTRAIN |
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Engine manufacturer: |
Daimler-Benz OM603 D30 |
Daimler-Benz M 103 E 30 |
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Engine type: |
diesel |
spark-ignition 4-stroke |
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Fuel type: |
diesel fuel |
petrol (gasoline) |
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Fuel system: |
diesel indirect injection |
indirect injection |
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Charge system: |
naturally aspirated |
naturally aspirated |
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Valves per cylinder: |
2 |
2 |
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Additional features: |
Bosch |
Bosch KE-Jetronic |
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SOHC |
SOHC; chain driven |
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Emission control: |
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3-way cat, Lambda-Sensor |
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Emission standard: |
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Cylinders alignment: |
Line 6 |
Line 6 |
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Displacement: |
2996 cm3 / 183.5 cui |
2962 cm3 / 180.3 cui |
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Power net: |
83 kW / 113 PS / 111 hp (ECE) |
125 kW / 170 PS / 168 hp (ECE) |
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/ 4600 |
/ 5500 |
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Torque: |
191 Nm / 141 ft-lb |
235 Nm / 173 ft-lb |
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/ 2700 - 2900 |
/ 4500 |
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Power gross: |
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Torque gross: |
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Redline rpm: |
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DRIVETRAIN |
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Transmission type: |
automatic |
automatic |
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Number of gears: |
4 |
4 |
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Final drive ratio std: |
4.32 |
4.6 |
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Standard tires: |
205 R 16 |
205/80 R 16 S |
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PERFORMANCE DATA - factory claim |
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Top speed: |
135 km/h / 84 mph |
165 km/h / 103 mph |
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0-60mph (s): |
21.1 |
13.4 |
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0-100km/h (s): |
22 |
14 |
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0-1/4mile (s): |
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0-1km (s): |
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Fuel consumption: |
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ECE 90/120/city (combined): |
10.8 / 15.9 / 12.2 (13) l/100km |
14.2 / 19.2 / 18.2 (17.2) l/100km |
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26.2 / 17.8 / 23.2 (21.8) mpg(imp.) |
19.9 / 14.7 / 15.5 (16.4) mpg(imp.) |
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21.8 / 14.8 / 19.3 (18.2) mpg(U.S.) |
16.5 / 12.2 / 12.9 (13.7) mpg(U.S.) |
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EU/ADR82 urban/extra-urban/combined: |
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EPA city/highway: |
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new EPA city/highway: |
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AS2877 city/highway: |
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CND FTP city/highway: |
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NBR7024 city/highway/comb.: |
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60-mode: |
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10-15 mode: |
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JC08 mode: |
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Emission: |
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PERFORMANCE DATA - ProfessCars™ simulation |
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Top speed: |
139 km/h / 86 mph |
163 km/h / 101 mph |
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(theor. without speed governor) |
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Acceleration: |
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0-30 km/h (s): |
3 |
2.3 |
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0-40 km/h (s): |
4.2 |
3.1 |
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0-50 km/h (s): |
6.3 |
4.6 |
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0-60 km/h (s): |
8.3 |
5.9 |
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0-70 km/h (s): |
11.3 |
7.3 |
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0-80 km/h (s): |
14.9 |
9.7 |
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0-90 km/h (s): |
18.8 |
12.3 |
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0-100 km/h (s): |
23.4 |
15 |
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0-110 km/h (s) |
31.6 |
18 |
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0-120 km/h (s): |
45.3 |
21.7 |
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0-130 km/h (s): |
70.7 |
29.3 |
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0-140 km/h (s): |
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38.3 |
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0-150 km/h (s): |
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51.6 |
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0-160 km/h (s): |
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102.6 |
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0-170 km/h (s): |
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0-180 km/h (s): |
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0-190 km/h (s): |
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0-200 km/h (s): |
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0-210 km/h (s): |
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0-220 km/h (s): |
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0-230 km/h (s): |
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0-240 km/h (s): |
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0-250 km/h (s): |
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0-270 km/h (s): |
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0-300 km/h (s): |
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0-20 mph (s): |
3.3 |
2.5 |
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0-30 mph (s): |
6 |
4.2 |
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0-40 mph (s): |
9.2 |
6.5 |
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0-50 mph (s): |
15 |
9.9 |
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0-60 mph (s): |
21.7 |
14 |
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0-70 mph (s): |
34.8 |
18.9 |
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0-80 mph (s): |
66.7 |
28.3 |
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0-90 mph (s): |
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43.9 |
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0-100 mph (s): |
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107.2 |
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0-110 mph (s): |
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0-120 mph (s): |
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0-130 mph (s): |
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0-140 mph (s): |
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0-150 mph (s): |
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0-160 mph (s): |
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0-180 mph (s): |
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0-200 mph (s): |
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Drag times: |
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0- 1/4 mile (s): |
22.3 |
19.4 |
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speed at 1/4 mile: |
98 km/h / 61 mph |
114 km/h / 71 mph |
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quarter mile time difference to the car from the first column (s): |
0 |
2.9 |
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distance at 1/4mile to the car from the first column ahead(+) or behind(-): |
0 |
95 m / 104 yds |
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0- 1km (s): |
41.7 |
36.1 |
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Acceleration on gears without gear reduction: |
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60-100 km/h on IVth (s) or |
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top gear if number of gears <4: |
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80-120 km/h on IVth (s) or |
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top gear if number of gears <4: |
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80-120 km/h on Vth (s): |
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80-120 km/h on VIth (s): |
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40-60 mph on IVth (s) or |
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top gear if number of gears <4: |
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50-70 mph on IVth (s) or |
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top gear if number of gears <4: |
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50-70 mph on Vth (s): |
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50-70 mph on VIth (s): |
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Overtaking factors with gear reduction or kick-down: |
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60-100 km/h (s): |
15.1 |
9 |
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80-120 km/h (s): |
30.4 |
11.9 |
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100-180 km/h (s): |
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40-70 mph (s): |
25.6 |
12.3 |
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50-90 mph (s): |
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34 |
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Speed range (max speed on gears in km/h / mph): |
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I: |
41 / 25 |
46 / 29 |
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II: |
70 / 44 |
79 / 49 |
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III: |
109 / 68 |
124 / 77 |
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IV: |
157 / 98 |
178 / 111 |
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V: |
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VI: |
/ |
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Fuel consumption |
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(extra-urban / city / highway / average combined) |
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l/100km: |
9.7-12.4 / 12.2-15.5 / - / 12.1 |
12.2-15.5 / 17.3-22.1 / 16.2-20.7 / 16 |
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mpg (imp.): |
22.8-29 / 18.2-23.2 / - / 23.4 |
18.2-23.2 / 12.8-16.3 / 13.7-17.4 / 17.7 |
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mpg (U.S.): |
18.9-24.2 / 15.1-19.3 / - / 19.4 |
15.1-19.3 / 10.6-13.6 / 11.4-14.5 / 14.7 |
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km/l: |
8.1-10.3 / 6.4-8.2 / - / 8.3 |
6.4-8.2 / 4.5-5.8 / 4.8-6.2 / 6.3 |
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www.automobile-catalog.com © The complete catalog of cars since 1945 © |
Most of the early UK w463s were built before August 1992 so deleting the cat is an option but any improvement in awful thirst is marginal. My manual car averages 19/20 mpg in mixed motoring better than the auto but still poor
It's all relative though. The diesel model's power can be improved with a turbo conversion, but the cost of that and the increased fuel consumption if you drive it at the speed (uptake and cruise) of the petrol model, the difference narrows dramatically.
A big part of what I do involves taking things apart. But I drive them for a few weeks as personal transport to learn what is good and bad beforehand. Did an interesting comparison between three W210 E-class models. A 300TD (OM606 straight 6 turbo diesel 177bhp), a E320 (petrol 3.2 V6 220bhp) and a E320CDi (OM613 6-cylinder common rail turbo diesel 197 or 204bhp?). My daily commute is a good mix of roads, 40 miles each way.
At the end, to decide, there is not much between them. I like diesels, but if it was my money to put down I would have gone for the E320 petrol V6. Same findings when I compared ML270/320/430/500. The 500 is the best.
Powerful diesels also drink and cost a lot more to buy and maintain.
Petrol cars give you a lot more for your money and if things are tight budget-wise, you can just leave earlier and drive a bit slower.
A friend up to recently had a 2004 Corsa common rail turbo diesel. Gave him 60mpg. But it went wrong big time with 96k on the clock. By the time I worked out everything for him, (depreciation, fuel and maintenance), that car cost him more in total ownership cost than a V8 G-wagen would have cost him. And so now he drives a nice W460 500.
It's all relative to your preferences and circumstances.
As the real problem for the G wagon is its weight I don't agree that turbo charging the diesel will harm its fuel consumption. Its all about the torque, more torque at lower revs can strange as it may seem reduce thirst and the same rule applies to turbo charged petrol too. Diesels do need more frequent oil changes though.
Run a turbo 603 or 606 in convoy with a 300 petrol, same speed, same take up and see how the difference shrinks. Power comes from fuel. But let's say there is no difference in fuel consumption and we stick to "standard", there is still only 5mpg difference. How long will it take to recoup the thousands spent on a decent turbo conversion? And the figure of a poorer condition vehicle? And by then it won't be long before the turbo needs to be replaced at £££ cost.
Each to their own, but I'd go with the petrol.
Hi
Buy a good merc 300 td and do a few easy mods
Voilla
You have a good engine and plenty of power and torque. More than the petrol with absolutely no modifications to engine, totally standard form
You will get power and good fuel economy no matter what anyone says. My om 603 was so slow. The om606td has transformed the vehicle totally
The only question is why do most manufactures go diesel route????? Because they are more power for less fuel
SIMPLES lol
I have tuned mine slightly and it whizzes, i dont want 300bhp for what i use it for but if i bought a petrol i would junk engine and fit a 606
Yes petrol is cheaper to buy, but e300 engines are so cheap and good. I have 4 just in case but i have thrashed the living daylights out of mine to prove a point and its still in there sweet as ever. so spares just sit in my shed lol
Petrols are smooth but for a gallon of fuel i would get a lot further faster
All good fun
Hi
Buy a good merc 300 td and do a few easy mods
Voilla
You have a good engine and plenty of power and torque. More than the petrol with absolutely no modifications to engine, totally standard form
You will get power and good fuel economy no matter what anyone says. My om 603 was so slow. The om606td has transformed the vehicle totally
The only question is why do most manufactures go diesel route????? Because they are more power for less fuel
SIMPLES lol
I have tuned mine slightly and it whizzes, i dont want 300bhp for what i use it for but if i bought a petrol i would junk engine and fit a 606
Yes petrol is cheaper to buy, but e300 engines are so cheap and good. I have 4 just in case but i have thrashed the living daylights out of mine to prove a point and its still in there sweet as ever. so spares just sit in my shed lol
Petrols are smooth but for a gallon of fuel i would get a lot further faster
All good fun
Totally agree, if you can do it yourself...BUT if you can't and need to pay someone to do it...that changes the picture on the money front...and then explain that to your insurance company,,,beforehand or after the event of an accident
most want to have a kitten just for a freeflow exhaust...ever see an assessor trying to get out of honouring a claim?
Not impossible to sort the insurance, but the whole total cost goes in a different league.
Don't get me wrong - I LOVE a good diesel (250bhp/800nm 366LA ;;))
But as a buying decision between these two, I'd go for the petrol.
If you want more out of it, "innocently" loose the cat, skim the head, do the timing and mixture(MAF mod) and you'll have 240bhp with LOTS more bottom end and better fuel economy, all invisible from the outside, all with the original engine.
Was swaying towards blue/black GES
Go for it - the extra goodies (Steering wheel/Alloys/etc) speak of it having been someone's pride, rather than a "hack"
It's all relative though. The diesel model's power can be improved with a turbo conversion, but the cost of that and the increased fuel consumption if you drive it at the speed (uptake and cruise) of the petrol model, the difference narrows dramatically.
A big part of what I do involves taking things apart. But I drive them for a few weeks as personal transport to learn what is good and bad beforehand. Did an interesting comparison between three W210 E-class models. A 300TD (OM606 straight 6 turbo diesel 177bhp), a E320 (petrol 3.2 V6 220bhp) and a E320CDi (OM613 6-cylinder common rail turbo diesel 197 or 204bhp?). My daily commute is a good mix of roads, 40 miles each way.
At the end, to decide, there is not much between them. I like diesels, but if it was my money to put down I would have gone for the E320 petrol V6. Same findings when I compared ML270/320/430/500. The 500 is the best.
Powerful diesels also drink and cost a lot more to buy and maintain.
Petrol cars give you a lot more for your money and if things are tight budget-wise, you can just leave earlier and drive a bit slower.
A friend up to recently had a 2004 Corsa common rail turbo diesel. Gave him 60mpg. But it went wrong big time with 96k on the clock. By the time I worked out everything for him, (depreciation, fuel and maintenance), that car cost him more in total ownership cost than a V8 G-wagen would have cost him. And so now he drives a nice W460 500.
It's all relative to your preferences and circumstances.
DEISEL
they cant all be wrong TAXI / DELIVERY VANS / TRUCK /TRAIN / SHIP / ECT
YOU DONT SEE MANY OF THEM USE PETROL ??
It's all relative though. The diesel model's power can be improved with a turbo conversion, but the cost of that and the increased fuel consumption if you drive it at the speed (uptake and cruise) of the petrol model, the difference narrows dramatically.
A big part of what I do involves taking things apart. But I drive them for a few weeks as personal transport to learn what is good and bad beforehand. Did an interesting comparison between three W210 E-class models. A 300TD (OM606 straight 6 turbo diesel 177bhp), a E320 (petrol 3.2 V6 220bhp) and a E320CDi (OM613 6-cylinder common rail turbo diesel 197 or 204bhp?). My daily commute is a good mix of roads, 40 miles each way.
At the end, to decide, there is not much between them. I like diesels, but if it was my money to put down I would have gone for the E320 petrol V6. Same findings when I compared ML270/320/430/500. The 500 is the best.
Powerful diesels also drink and cost a lot more to buy and maintain.
Petrol cars give you a lot more for your money and if things are tight budget-wise, you can just leave earlier and drive a bit slower.
A friend up to recently had a 2004 Corsa common rail turbo diesel. Gave him 60mpg. But it went wrong big time with 96k on the clock. By the time I worked out everything for him, (depreciation, fuel and maintenance), that car cost him more in total ownership cost than a V8 G-wagen would have cost him. And so now he drives a nice W460 500.
It's all relative to your preferences and circumstances.
DEISEL
they cant all be wrong TAXI / DELIVERY VANS / TRUCK /TRAIN / SHIP / ECT
YOU DONT SEE MANY OF THEM USE PETROL ??
LOL
I like this
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