Africa Travels - what car, what engine, what am I doing?
Hi, I'm new to the forum, to the G-Wagen and to mechanics...but I'm keen. I'm planning a trip from Salisbury, Uk, to Cape town. I've got a 1983 280GE which leaks a little oil from the head, but has always and seems in good condition and my dad just bought a 1990 300GD initially as spares for the older one but now as replacement as its in such good knick (I think he's taken a shine to it) for another thats off the cards . I really want to do the trip in the old G, not some landy or a Hilux.
Firstly has anyone done the trip and have advice on the route, visas, carnet, insurance, shipping costs etc. etc.
Secondly, and bearing in mind I dont have a lot of money as a student and not a lot of mechanic know-how, is the G-wagen a good car to be doing it in?
I hear the 300GD (a 463) has too much electrical stuff to go wrong (diff locks etc) - so i shouldnt take that.
The old 280GE 460, being petrol is not ideal by any means (it does 6mpg!) and the engine, though ok for the UK may not stand the test.
Should I convert the 460 to diesel (I have man with a suitable engine - how much will it cost)? And is this a cheaper and better option than, say buying a Hilux.
I've heard also that spares for an old G wagen are rife across africa because of the old taxis and trucks- is this true? and are they easy to fix? (I have no knowledge of mechanics but Im trying to find an evening course - you have to start somewhere).
Basically I'm trying to find an excuse to use a G-Wagen because the are, essentially, so much cooler than anything else.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Hi,
I am not sure about the route, carnet, insurance, shipping costs... but 1 thing I know for sure is that the vaccinations, which you should have before departing to central Afrika will probably cost £400+.
Visas are required for the following countries if you were a BC: Libya, Algeria, Chad, Sudan, Niger, Central African Republic, Dem. Rep of the Congo, Rep of the Congo, Gabon and some others...
W463 300GD are reliable according to my own experience. I drove my 90' 463 GD for 20,000 km (mostly snowy weather) in slightly less than 6 months and gave me absolutely no problems.
Your plan sounds really fun!! :D Looking forward to hearing more about it!
Hope this helps
I am no expert on these kind of long haul trips either, but my 460 (230 GE Petrol) just goes and goes. No electric/chips to worry about and pretty accessible to work on all round (unless you want to get to the fan blower!). Not that I have had to work on mine much - new exhaust, steering damper, radiator etc.
I would go for the 463. It’s diesel, better economy and reliability. Early 463’s have next to no electronics in them. Actually when compared to a 280 they have less “mission critical” stuff. ABS so what if that fails your brakes will continue to work and diff locks although more complex than a 460 in reality are pretty basic and again so what if they fail. If the ignition control module on a 280 fails you’ve had it (you would want to take a spare though) Bosch petrol injection is very reliable but I doubt it would like poor quality fuel. Older diesel merc’s will run on just about anything. Diesel Merc’s are everywhere in Africa.
If it was a very well sorted 230 I may think differently and 460’s in general are more basic (better) but good well sorted one’s are pretty rare. Again a well sorted diesel 460 would be OK.
Obvious things need to be in first rate condition I.E. suspension, wheel bearings engine, gearbox. Any serious replacements associated with these can become pretty expensive, especially if you get someone else to do the work. You should attempt to do this work yourself though so that you get a good understanding of the oily bits.
I’ve heard ball a park figures for this sort of trip in the region of £12k. But then again people do it in 40 yr old 2CV’s
Go for it (very jealous!)
Russ
Hmm alhwalker here for a better monika ...
Everything that I have heard and experienced tells me that a 460 gets to places that a 463 will not. in english mud and snow given that I have both that has proved to be the case. maybe unfair as the 460 is running on all terrain BFG and the 463 on fatter pirelli ice and snow. the 460 in question is tatty and there would be no intention to using the current petrol engine - diesels are much more common in africa. one issue is that we also have another 463 (H707 - once well known in the GWOA) - this has not been a great success and currently has a broken prop shaft, transfer box, rear axle and possibly needs another gear box - from Dorset dog walking, not the sahara! the electric central locking and windows have always be a pain in the fundemental **** , the sunroof and wipers leak & the a/c has never worked. although the "new" 463 diesel is the same year, it is in MUCH better condition and has only 111k miles on it. BUT if it were to end with the same problems as its new 463 stable mate it would be good for nothing other than to prop up a sand dune in the sand sea of calansio. therefore i think the 1983 460, being more of the original military "spec" would be a better idea, once fettled and diesel'ed. But then again I have a vested interest and am not a expert!
On a separate note: READ - The Network, by Jason Elliot. G's are two of the heros! SPREAD THE WORD and wait for the film to do them real justice. All Jason wants out of it is a G55 - can one blame him?
Just because you want to keep the new 300GD...
I’ve had both 460 and 463’s and I certainly don’t recognise your description that a 460 will go where a 463 won’t. Nothing in it really, they are very similar especially when in 4wd. The basic suspension set up is pretty much the same.
Your problems with broken prop shaft, transfer box, rear axle etc. are not typical and point to a poorly maintained / abused example. Same issues could afflict a 460, more probable really given the age and use most 460’s have seen. I do recognise the electric window/door lock problems though.
Maybe my ideal for this trip would be a 603 engined 460, but that goes against my principle of keeping things as standard as possible. IMHO any grief will come from modifications no matter how meticulous you are. Worse still if you have contracted out these modifications to an “expert”.
The most significant failure on mine when it visited the Sahara being the retro fitted electric fan (stupidly I had trusted this and not put the viscous fan back on as back up) Just when it got a tad warm, see attached photo
Of course the easy option would be to buy a pre 96 Land Cruiser, change the oil if you want to be pedantic and off you go
You may want to check out this site:
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/
Russ
"poorly maintained and abused example" ouch! it belonged to the technical "adviser" to this noble association. in the years we have her she has been much loved ... the advice of the "experts" in Malvern to drive her over to them to review the problems simply killed her. when "recovered" to them they had little useful advice so she is back here.
now to show my ignorance; what is a 603 engine?
OM 603 is a diesel engine produced by MB from the mid-late 80s until the early-mid 90s. The version, which was installed on 463 300GDS (2,996c.c.) has an inline-6 configuration and produces 113PS.
You can see a photo of it here... http://www.gwoa.co.uk/members/vehicles/1990-300-gd-langversion
Thanks for that. Can they be "chipped"?
Ooop’s sorry no offence intended re. the poorly 463.
603’s can’t be chipped. They are very basic, one of the last of the non electronically “enhanced” diesel engines. Probably ultimately not as robust as the 5 cylinder 617’s but a little more go and far more refined. Can be turbo’ed but that brings with it a pile of other issues.
Russ
Just following on from Russ and to add my bit: maintenance is the key. Every car breaks down sooner or later. Amongst many other so-called top marque 4x4s I had a '96 80-series cruiser and it was just like any other car when they get to that 9-11 year old mark: things start to go wrong (on the cruiser lots of electrical switches, exhaust gaskets/pipes/leaky seals/etc - unlike my landy where new gearboxes/props/mechanical stuff was needed). G's are better made than cruisers (and needless to say landys) and, like toyotas can be very expensive to maintain/fix when things go wrong (unlike the landys - their saving grace in this country at least!). I know of two chaps who took Cruisers into Marocco and one didn't make it out simply because basic components went wrong/completely failed: axles, gearboxes and yes even radiators going to pot........and these were VERY experienced guys. They thought their normally-serviced 'elderly' (i.e. 80-series cruisers) were up for anything (as they had been on a few trips already). They regularly checked levels before going but didn't do REAL maintenance (i.e. stripping/overhauling) prior to their fateful trip. So make sure you overhaul all the major components yourself before you go (because, firstly, you'll know how to do the work should something go wrong and, secondly, its the only way you know its been done right - in one case of the chaps I mentioned a garage 'said' they stripped his axles, but didn't do the job properly.....and he owned the garage!....not a happy boss as you could imagine). We tend to go for the most basic from of cars for expeditions in Britain but personally I think this must be a cultural thing. The continentals have a bit more faith in technology and take all manner of 463s (built up to 1999 and 350TDs excluded) regularly across Africa/Asia/South America and back.......but they do know how to maintain cars better than we do. The choice, needless to say is yours, just know what you're getting in to: do your maintenance before you go. Good luck/ph
Russ, thanks for the advice. As I am sure you've noted, alan.holfordwalker is my dad (and oi, stop Hijacking my thread padre)... and I am battling him for the 463 diesel (that I found). It seems perfect for the job, ok maybe its in a little too good a knick for the job, but surely thats a good thing? I'd rather be safe when crossing the Sudan... as i understand the 463 is in permantent 4 wheel drive so it'd be much safer to drive off road or on those unexpected sand drifts covering the potholed tracks, moreover it is a factory standard and less likely to give me trouble. Ok, so what if the mirror electrics go bust, it wouldnt take a genious to work out how to fix them in place.
We have been able to source a 300gd engine to replace the petrol in the 460, but a quick look over this and other forums suggest that the swap isnt as easy as one would have thought, in fact it looks positively like a headache and would end up costing more than the diesel 463 cost us... particularly as I am finding it hard to find brackets to mount the engine on, not to mention a whole host of other parts needed to bodge the job. Furthermore, if one would like to do the trip with more than 2 people, it'd be much easier to take the 463, remove the back 2 seats (leaving 1) so that all the kit can fit in rather than trying to fit the kit around the bench style back seat on the 460. To me the logistics involved seem too great, not to mention the price?
this is a very interesting conversation and I have nothing useful to add. I do have a question though, what will be your route? The west following the Dakar route then on down through Nigeria, Cameroon, the Congos, through Angola or inland via Zambia or the East route following the Nile and through the former British colonies south. Secondly how do you prepare for the other nasties; snakes, crocodiles, hippos, mosquitos and the like, do you plan for the worst and hope for the best?
Least of your worries, I think I’d be more interested in:
al qaeda in the maghreb
http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&source=hp&biw=1440&bih=746&q=al+qaeda+in+...
Or maybe land mines in landmines in DRC?
http://www.southerntimesafrica.com/article.php?title=landmines%20kill%20...
Sad world, but I'm still very jealous and I'll be there someday
Russ
Least of your worries, I think I’d be more interested in:
al qaeda in the maghreb
http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&source=hp&biw=1440&bih=746&q=al+qaeda+in+...
Or maybe land mines in landmines in DRC?
http://www.southerntimesafrica.com/article.php?title=landmines%20kill%20...
Sad world, but I'm still very jealous and I'll be there someday
Russ
I'm going to be going down the east via Syria and Jordan and then down the nile. It's a little simpler than the west (so a lot easier with my budget and time span) and I have many more friends and family out that way. I don't think there is much to prep for animals. As Russ said, I'll need to watch ouf for places like northen kenya more because of bandits. Loads of people go for an antimalarial. In the past I haven't bothered, vitamin B seems to keen them away and the antidote drugs are so easy out there - after all, expats dont take antimalarials every day of their life! But this might be a bit irresponsible, this time i think i will take something
^Speaking of them, might be useful to have an Arabic-speaker aboard, at least for North Africa.
Please let me know when you plan the trip. I am planning to go through west which is safer bet to go down then crossing Sudan, Somalia and Ethiopia.
My trip is for Mali so west is for me for this trip.
Two years ago I went as far as the southern Turkey/Iran border then returned back as further down was not safe.
Any how, please let me know your dates and final plans.
If any one wants to join me to the Western Sahara trip January 2012, please let me know I have a room for two more in the car. I will be doing it in Landcruiser not G because plan is to sell the car at the end then donate the money and fly back. Landcruisers are hard cash in Africa.
Total time off work needed will be three weeks.
M2dxb
Is that an offer then? Road/traffic safety lessons thrown in too? Along with a fair bit of G-diddle experience. All sounds too good to be true & by the time edhw gets to North Africa you will have been snapped up in some uber job perhaps? AHW
From what I can work out the East (avoiding Somalia by as much as possible) seems to be one of the most traveled and stable routes in recent times but there is definitely more and more cause for considering the west. Sudan is due for a referendum on the north and south business in February, which a friends Dad is meant to be monitoring - I wouldn't be surprised if a full scale civil war stopped the route! We're planning on leaving in July 2011 so who knows!
Good luck with your trip.
Hi
Just to chuck my thoughts in we made a trip down through africa to Senagal, all the way through Europe morocco, western Saharh, Mauritania and Senagal.
We went in a 230GE the only problems we had was sand in the fuel it got into the engine and we had to have a second hand engine installed in Atar !
Apart from that all I would say is diesel next time we have now bought a 300D and are preparing it at the moment. We are looking at alternative engines as the one thing sand and desert does is sap power and i dont think the 88HP we have at the moment will cut it when the van is fully loaded.
Good Luck
Paul
Any well-maintained G in fairly good shape is suitable to go to Africa or anywhere for that matter.
I would go in my G300D: diesel (better economy and easier to find), simple (no electronics) and it's got aircon...
Hi Paul,
I am thinking of a trip to Ghana. SE of Senegal when are you planning your next trip ? We could convoy then I peel off for Bukina Faso and down to Ghana.
Sam
Its all got a bit too much to handle in the g-wagon stakes. I'm still hanging in there but it seems a no go with a petrol...
I'm looking at a j reg Hilux surf on sunday for cheap cheap, but the 2.4L version is well known for blowing the head, so perhaps (and secretly fingers crossed?) i'll be back with the g-wagon programme sooner than i may think.
how about something like this
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Thanks guys, really useful. Russ280, really useful stuff. I'm back south soon an I'm going to give the both of them some serious scrutiny...