463 Transfer box issue - 750.653

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Howard Green
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I’ve noticed recently as I pull away in my 463 (2000) 300DT in high range, the transfer box gear lever moves forward by 20-30mm and back on over run yet In low box the lever does not move at all. I discussed this with another member who thought it may be an indication of ware within the box, as he had the same issue with his 500 which evenly required the transfer box being rebuilt, as it would frequently slip into to neutral under load.

Does this mean when the lever moves forward the  gears are not fully meshed so putting additional strain on the gears.

Has any body else experienced the same ?

phileas
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Re: 463 Transfer box issue - 750.653

Hi Howard, I had this on my 500 which had a body lift. The lever never felt as if it engaged and occasionally - in low box - it would 'flick' out of gear: not very pleasant on a steep hill climb. The reason this happened was because the space between the chassis and the gearbox tunnel is very tight and there was a mounting slot (for lack of a better word - like the old Ferarri gearbox stainless steel lever gaits) between the two which channeled the lowbox lever to and fro. In the case of the lifted body, this slot got malaligned on refit and stopped the lever from engaging properly. I only found this out once I removed all central channel cover/ trim plates. It was just a matter of rejigging the mounting slot and I have never had a problem since. I hope this is what you have as it takes about an hour to do and is a lot cheaper than a transfer box rebuild. Regards, Ph

Howard Green
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Re: 463 Transfer box issue - 750.653

Thank you for your post Philias I will investigate the slot. The lever feels as if its engaging correctly, but  you can  feel it moving forward and back as you move off and slow down. 

Gavin, out of interest how much is a new transfer box?

Arnie
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Re: 463 Transfer box issue - 750.653

Check the condition of the transfer case mounts and also the gearbox mounts.

Howard Green
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Re: 463 Transfer box issue - 750.653

Phileas and Arnie thank you both for you comments.

I had checked the mounting with a lever bar and they seem in good order with only the minimum of movement you would expect from the mounting bush.

As Phileas suggested with the gear lever gaiter removed  it is clear the lever is not being restricted by the slot in the gearbox tunnel. I then put the truck into drive the body of the gearbox did not move, but the lever moved forward and then back again when I changed from  drive top reverse. 

I suspect a combination of a worn selector fork and gears is causing the gears to move in and out of mesh by 20-30mm (top of lever) as the box is put under load. The question, is this normal. I suspect its not and in time the box will slip into neutral.

I would be grateful if owners could check their own trucks and to see if their levers move in the same way. I believe the same transfer box was fitted in 463s from 1998 through to 2003 when they introduced the electronic selector.

Roly had the same symptoms with his 500, once it had been repaired the lever does not move at all when the truck is under load.

At  £3200 inc Vat for a Recon box from Merc I would prefer not to change it.

 

phileas
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Re: 463 Transfer box issue - 750.653

Howard,

 

I'm afraid to inform you that my transfer box lever, once engaged in either low or high, does not move at all. By the way, until I sorted out my issue, I used to ratchet strap my lever in either low of high to stop the thing from slipping out of gear: I realise that this sounds rather drastic, but it did the trick for a whole summer in Greece until I got down to fixing it when I returned to Blighty. I only mention it, because it worked and I was delaying to face a potentially large bill.

 

Ph

Howard Green
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Re: 463 Transfer box issue - 750.653

I could leave it but if it needs changing I would prefer to do it now. It will be interesting to see other members thoughts, but I am sure I will place an order for a Recon box before the weeks out. Guess at the same time I may as well change the mounts. 

Arnie
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Re: 463 Transfer box issue - 750.653

Yes, mine only moves by a millimeter or two. I have not seen this issue on any other transfer box before.

There are some used transfer boxes available on German ebay for around euro-2500. However, I would guess that a good transmission specialist could repair yours with new parts for a lot less money.

Just as an example:

http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/

 

German ebay:

http://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_Verteilergetriebe+w463.TRS0&_nkw=Verteilergetriebe+w463&_sacat=0

 

Possible used one from dublin

Try to contact these people, who are breaking a 300GE near Dublin (contact number in listing):

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mercedes-G-Wagen-W463-Parts-Breaking-300GE-SWB-Automatic-Wagon-Wheel-nut-cap-/301776327443?hash=item464345531&nma=true&si=0pY45qblIHcBAO0NFbsbtQGgptY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&

ebay item:301776327443

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

JASONGDS
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Re: 463 Transfer box issue - 750.653

Is it basically the same transfer box on a 463 on a 500 or a 300? I know ratios are different but strength of internals? G wagon G has rebuilt his own transfer box, seems nice and quiet now. Not that easy as a job.

 

 

Arnie
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Re: 463 Transfer box issue - 750.653

The versions are with the high-range  either 0.87 (overdrive) or 1.05. The low range is 2.158. I think they are all the same otherwise, but of course some engines now develop over 700 Nm which is a lot to handle.

Later models (2001 >) replace manual shifter with electric motor drive.

 

 

 

Howard Green
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Re: 463 Transfer box issue - 750.653

Thank you guys for your comments and to Gavin for checking on prices and stock.

Philias, I removed the gear lever  gaiter to see if the lever was fouling against the slot in the tunnel, but there was no evidence of snagging when I moved the lever  from Low to high. I started the engine and with the gaiter removed I could see when I put the main box into drive, the transfer box did not move but the lever did,  not a lot but enough to realise its not right.

Arnie, thankyou for taking the time for posting the links, but I decided the amount I would have to pay for a second hand box with a unknown history I may as well buy a Recon. I made enquires with a number of companies who understandably said they would need to strip the box down to understand the problem before they could provide a quote, but they thought between £1000 - £1500 which is in line with what Roly paid to have his repaired. 

Incidentally all the transfer boxes are different but the the 300 TD and 500 are the same part number.

This afternoon I paid a deposit at my local Merc dealer for a Recon, which should be here sometime next week.

Howard Green
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Re: 463 Transfer box issue - 750.653

Ive taken delivery of a new transfer box for my 300TD from Merc, but I have noticed the data tag on the side of the casing states its a version 750.651 and not a 750.653 as fitted to my truck.

Can anybody tell me the difference?

gav.helme
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Re: 463 Transfer box issue - 750.653
Apologies Howard, only just seen this and read my email! (work) Are you sorted now?
gav.helme
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Re: 463 Transfer box issue - 750.653
750.651 as fitted to the 350 OM603 should be number A463 280 10 00 750.653 as fitted to the 300 OM606 A463 280 15 00 Is there not a part number on the plate too?
gav.helme
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Re: 463 Transfer box issue - 750.653
750.651 fitted up to serials 106739 750.653 fitted from serials 106740
gav.helme
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Re: 463 Transfer box issue - 750.653
All casing's and major components are the same, all drive flanges are the same with 2 props with UJ and main drive in homokenetic... can't see a difference!
Howard Green
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Re: 463 Transfer box issue - 750.653
Gav, thank you for taking the time to cross-reference the parts for both boxes but it still leaves me thinking there must be a reason why Merc have given the T/c in my truck a letter model number?
gav.helme
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Re: 463 Transfer box issue - 750.653
Looks like it's boxed up wrong to me!
Howard Green
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Re: 463 Transfer box issue - 750.653

Merc have confirmed its the wrong part in the correct box. They are collecting it tomorrow morning and have ordered the correct unit, which unfortunately is on back order.... Makes me wonder if theres a problem with this  model of box as they had three on the shelve November 2015.

Ha ho

Howard Green
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Re: 463 Transfer box issue - 750.653

At last the new transfer box is arriving from Merc this afternoon. 

g wagon g
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Re: 463 Transfer box issue - 750.653

Hi 

I just recon the power of newer engines hurts the box, plus many have had a tough life and many miles on them

The bearings and gaskets to do the job correctly are costly too. Most recon units are only the parts needed for a short 12 month or 12000 mile warranty

Not good enough really 

To rebuild mine with all new bearings etc and no labour cost about 300 pounds in itself without oil or fit and remove

I could of done it for 125 using different bearings but used all the same makes and genuine gaskets etc

The merc one will ,or should have everything done including differential which seemed ok so i left as it was

If i had to do that too it would be a lot more money in parts alone

 

Howard Green
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Re: 463 Transfer box issue - 750.653

Hi Gaz

I considered  repairing the box myself but reading the tech manuals I thought I would need  etc to take it apart. As I am planning on keeping the truck for a while, I thought  I would invest in a fully recon box.

Are they difficult to repair and is it worth keeping my old box bare in mind I had to pay a surcharge of £700 to ensure I return the old unit.

Howard

JASONGDS
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Re: 463 Transfer box issue - 750.653

Hi Howard,

Have you noticed any improvement since fitting the new transfer box? Any smoother?

 

Howard Green
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Re: 463 Transfer box issue - 750.653

The new box only arrived last week and planning to fit it later this week.

jason millar
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Re: 463 Transfer box issue - 750.653
Do you have your old transfer box mine needs two gears I can't get from Merc
Jdring
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Re: 463 Transfer box issue - 750.653

Try a PM but Howard hasn't been on here recently (>1 year).

jason millar
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Re: 463 Transfer box issue - 750.653
Thanks will do