300GE running a bit warm

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markhowes
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So, now that we have a nice sunny day my 463 300GE SWB has reminded me that it doesn't much like sitting still in traffic for any length of time on a warm day. The temp guage creeps up to just above the 3/4 mark.

Is that likely to be a water pump issue?

Has anyone tried fitting something like a kenlowe electric fan to a G and does that work/is it adviseable.

Be nice to sort it out before "summer" does eventually arrive.

Mark

bigblock
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

It might be worth checking that  the viscous coupling on the fan is engaging. 

You can check by switching the engine off after it has reached operating temperature and trying to turn the fan by hand, it should be difficult to do with lots of resistance. If it turns easily then your viscous coupling is not engaging.

If you have had the fan coupling apart recently it is also worth checking that the fan has been put on the right way round and is not blowing instead of sucking, a problem I once had with an old girlfriend smiley.

Arnie
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

yes, it is likely that the viscous fan coupling is slipping so that at idle in traffic the fan is not rotating fast enough.

The unit is a fluid-filled device and either the fluid leaks or the controlling bi-metallic strip can fail over time.

 

panzer
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

Is the radiator in good health and not clogged with sediment and full of coolant?

Does the thermostat open when the engine warms up? 

Spider1V
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

Hi Mark,

Try all the above but also take off the front and take a look at the radiator grills, from time to time I take a hose and clear out the muck that accumulates between the little grills. Best way os to soak it and leave it for about 10 mins and then hose it through. You would be amazed at how much that can address the issue. If it does carry on it could be the water pump.

Please note - if you use a pressure hose, make sure you keep it back other wise you will bend the fins.

HTH

Spider1V

prwales
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

head gaskets can develop a creeping incomplete failure circa 150,000 but that and water pump failures are often interrelated, have the cylinders pressure tested 

markhowes
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

 Many thanks for all the suggestions.

So far have double checked that fan is on the correct way round (it is) and once engine was properly warmed up but switched off managed to spin the fan round with one finger so assume that means it is the viscous fan coupling that is the problem. The fan does spin round when idling but not very fast.

What is the cure/solution?

If it means a complete new fan coupling is there any point in considering a kenlowe instead?

Mark

 

markhowes
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

Thanks Spider,

Good tip - and it's a nice day today so will have a go at that.

Good job I now have a key to lower the bull bar.

Best,

Mark

Arnie
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

The viscous coupling has a centre Allan screw to attach it to the drive pulley. The fan attaches to it via 4 small high-tensile bolts.You can buy just the viscous coupling on its own - usually around £50 -  £70 for a genuine Sachs OEM part.

The lower-part of the radiator can indeed accumulate mud and dirt, which will reduce its efficiency. This is particularly the case on vehicles with air-con that have the condenser radiator attached to the main radiator with little or no space in between. Mine used to run hot until I found a lot of mud trapped between the two radiators (was an MB demonstrator vehicle), but it was only obvious after I was removing the radiator. It also tends to overheat the transmission oil (shares same same radiator), leading to brown transmission fluid and jerky shifts.

From what you describe, it would seem your viscous coupling for the fan is slipping too much.

 

mgrays
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

Electric fans could be worth 2 mpg from reading around  .. but really it is probably £500 to do so you have to do some miles to pay it back.. and then it is another thing to fail or be non standard. So I did not do it..  certainly that fan is chewing up a good 5 hp I would guess..so it also gives you another 5hp.. hey for us 300GD's that is more than 5%!!

markhowes
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

Thanks Arnie,

An Allan key and 4 small bolts. That almost sounds as though it's a job I could tackle myself but just had another look and not so sure. Is it something that can be done just by removing that plastic cowl behind the radiator or does the radiator also have to be removed.

Had a search for the part but couldn't find one for a G Wagon. Anyone know what the part number is - might it be the same as for a W124 300E? Does the part come complete with the bimetal temperature sensor or does that have to be ordered separately?

 

gav.helme
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

A103 200 11 22 was A103 200 09 22

Comes complete but get a new Allen Bolt N000912 010078 

£186.82 + VAT

Germany have loads

None in the UK

G specific to the M103.987 300GE and M104.996 G320

Think you can lock then in so they run all the time?

Expensive on fuel but maybe a test to see if is faulty for sure?

Car ones different and a few types on the M103 in 2.6 and 3.0 form

Arnie
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

Wow, that's quite expensive compared to other more common types. But I guess Gav is correct in that with the more common design, the viscous coupling has an integrated large nut that screws directly to the pulley. This one has a small Allen bolt through the middle.

Yes there is a disc with lots of little tabs behind the viscous coupling. In emergencies, a few of the tabs can be bent over to engage in the coupling and provide constant, locked drive.

For access, the cowl around the fan needs to be removed. The cowl is in two parts: the main rectangular part against the radiator and a smaller circular ring extending from that, around the fan. It should be enough just to remove the ring. There is a plastic clip (with a round eyelet in it) on the top, which once extracted, allows the ring section of the cowl to be removed by rotating it to unlock it and then  sliding up and out. Place some cardboard against the radiator core before commencing work, to protect it.

 

 

markhowes
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

Thanks, as always, Gav.

Can I just double check the part number for the Allen Bolt. Hate to take it all apart and then find I can't bolt new coupling back on.

MB dealer gives it as N000912010221.

Best,

Mark

phileas
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

Ph

 

Hi Gav, a number of years ago I had the same problem with my then-G300 (petrol) when I was in Greece. I tried to lock it in place initially but it couldn't be done because the fins were too thin (and it was very hot outside!). Once I got the viscous coupling and fitted it, all in the family were at peace again - the air con could be switched on, because I had the heaters running on full whenever we got into traffic.


So, my point is that the theory of crimping the blades so that the fan is on all the time doesn't actually work when it is really hot outside. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news/....................

 

cox.adrian
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

   just ordered a viscous 6032000522 fan drive 256 euro incl tax

  this was for W460 

Arnie
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

here is a Bher/Hella part from Eurocarparts.

(actually the one in the picture is manufactured by Sachs)

 

 

 

markhowes
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

Oh well - have ordered now from MB Oxford.@ £208.90 including the VAT and a new Allen bolt. Awaiting delivery - expected tomorrow (they had to get it from Germany).

Arnie
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

Well, at least you can be sure it's an original/OEM part.

 

 

markhowes
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

Thanks Arnie crying

But I could have put that £80 towards my savings for this:-

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201505143448095

I really like the look of it and, OK I know it's rare but what does everyone think it's really worth?

 

neilmarton
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

Mark,

I had seen this one ! (I would like him in my stables)

It's worth what someone is willing to pay for it ! (where and when would you find another ?)

JASONGDS
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

It's a miserable job , involving lots of minor scuffs on hands, clearance very tight but all do able! Allen key, 8mm, needs some form of impact/blow to loosen it

Arnie
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

While undoing the Allan screw, you will need to grab hold of the pulley or the belt to prevent it rotating. Although there is supposed to be a feature on the water pump to insert something like a screwdriver from behind the pulley to lock it and stop it rotating.. It's all doable but tight, as mentioned.

Place a sheet of cardboard in front of the radiator  matrix to protect it from knocks.

Some Loctite, thread-locker would be advised when replacing the main Allan screw. and for when refitting the other small bolts that retain the plastic fan (3) and the backing plate (4).

 

 

 

 

 

markhowes
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

needs some form of impact/blow to loosen it

Blimey! Beginning to sound as though it would almost be simpler to remove the radiator first. Not sure how I'm going to give the allen bolt a knock to loosen it given how little space is available.

Still awaiting arrival of new part so will take another look at things then.

Arnie
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

Removing the radiator is another fun bit of work. The fastenings are quite simple, but you need to first remove the front sump-guard for access to the radiator retaining clips that are beneath the radiator lower rubber mounts.

Then, you have the automatic transmission fluid connections on one side and the engine oil-cooler connections on the other side of the radiator and spanner access for these is limited (very limited).

You can, however, also remove the second half of the cowling, which will give more access to place an extension tube on the end of the allen key for more torque. ...and make sure that you have a good, branded, professional-quality allen key, so as not to damage the socket on the bolt.

I think that with both parts of the cowling removed, access will be quite acceptable, without the need to remove the radiator..The outer part of the cowling has a twist-lock engagement, with directions printed on the upper side, and requires removal of the plastic lock key. The inner part of the cowling is attached by prongs which engage on the lower part of the radiator and spring clips at each side, and will slide up and out out with some jiggling to get passed the hoses.

 

 

 

 

 

markhowes
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

Part and allen bolt arrived so will have a go at this over the weekend.

Probably a silly question but will probably use a torque wrench to tighten the allen bolt to try and save scraping all the skin off my knuckles. Is there a correct torque setting I should use?

Don't know why but I expected the coupling to spin on itself when cold and then tighten up when hot - but it's like one solid part. How does that work as it will be bolted to the pulley which is spinning all the time?

 

 

bigblock
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

When the coupling  is not running (engine off and cold) the silicon fluid drains into the working area as if the fan were engaged. After start up the fluid is pumped back into the reservoir and the coupling rotates freely. At the required temperature  a valve is opened by the bi-metalic strip and the fluid moves back into the working area and the fan is engaged.

Your new coupling is in the engaged position because it is cold and the fluid has drained from the reservoir into the working area. Once you have fitted it to the engine on initial start up the fan will run and then it will disengage as the fluid is pumped back to the reservoir.

markhowes
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

enlightenedThanks bigblock. Always nice to have some idea how these things work (for me at least).

And is there a correct torque setting for the allen bolt?

 

JASONGDS
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

You do not want to remove radiator as big spanners needed for oil cooler and potential for stripping threads high. As I remember  8mm Allen key, try and shock it with serpentine belt attached , think I used a piece of wood on top of the Allen key then hit wood with hammer, cheap Allen keys just bend, make sure it a brilliant fit or else a problem if it rounds off! The bolts that hold fan on, good potential for dropping these into the engine bay and never seen again!

markhowes
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

Oh - had hoped coupling would come off with fan attached and then sort that out on bench.

I guess all will be revealed once cowl removed.

 

 

Arnie
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

Yes, once you undo the allan bolt, the fan and the viscous coupling will come off together. There are three small bolts that secure the fan to the coupling, which you can undo after taking the unit out.

On the radiator plastic cowling, you will see two metal clips - one on the left and another on the right - just under the hoses that can be removed by sliding them off. These release the second part of the cowling. however, you must first remove the circular part.

 

 

markhowes
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

Had a closer look at the cowl today and it has a crack which means that when I remove it it will effectively be in 2 pieces.

Probably been like that for ages but makes sense to try and repair it as it's coming out - but there are so many glues/plastic welds and they seem to be specific to different types of plastic. Anyone know what plastic the cowl or majority of car plastic parts are?

 

 

Arnie
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

 You might find a good used one ?

However, if you wish to attempt repair, then I'd look at 3m products:

http://www.3m.co.uk/3M/en_GB/bodyshop-solutions/how-to/plastic-repair/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhmZH75-eVE&feature=youtu.be

 

JASONGDS
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

If you go to a body shop they have a sort of staple gun that uses heated staples so can be stitched together ,works well on bumpers etc

Arnie
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Re: 300GE running a bit warm

When you extract it, there should be visible markings as to the type of plastic that it;'s made of. Probably and ABS or GF/ABS.