280 GE for auction Weds 25 th Nov 2015
Hi, fellow members , my wife and I are mercedes enthusiasts with W124 estate , W201 2.6 , SLK R170 AMG ) but aspire to a G wagen !! having been members approx 15 months
We hoped we could elicit some information and advice about a 280 GE to be auctioned by Brightwells, Leominster on Weds next , 25 th
I am sorry we do not have the ability to post a link , however it is silver SWB reg F 442 RYH ,however it is not to be sold with this number
Chassis no WDB 460 2322 706 1815
Engine no 110994 2200 3689
Allegedley with 70,000 miles, some history , 5 speed auto box ?? with much work carried out by the G Centre , Worcs.
Guide price £9,750 to 3 11, 750
Any advice much appreciated
Thank you
Mark and Denise Hodgkinson (07831 855 684 )
It looks a nice car.
If spending that money I'd want someone who knows G wagons to take a good look over it though.
The 280 petrol in a G wagon is an alcoholic though, it must be noted!
The auto box is 4 speed, otherwise the description is accurate. Mileage is likely to be 170k but paperwork will be required to verify. Rust is the big issue at that age. Looks original which is a plus.
Given the relative thirst of the 280e engine, the mileage may be correct. There seems to be quite a few 280GE with lowish miles, but be aware that the mile-ometer only reads up to 99,999 and then goes back round to 0
thirsty beasts 13-15 mpg if you drive carefully
Thanks for updates and comments, I assumed the 5 speed auto was incorrect
And the odometer , is best to assume 170 k perhpas
What would be ideal would be a knowledgeable memebr who could accompany me on Tuesday to view and advise , i am more than happy to pay expenses , plus a lunch and fuel costs
Any takers please ??
mark
And the odometer , is best to assume 170 k perhpas
Mileage may be correct, but don't rely on it unless there is continuous documentation to support it. Also check for excessive wear on brake-pedal and driver's seat and steering wheel etc.
I think you mentioned the car has had some restoration work, in which case the details of what was done should be available from the previous owner and/or garage.
I am not free on Tuesday, but some things to look out for include:
- check that engine starts properly from totally cold and idles smoothly
- check under the bonnet. All should be neat and tidy.
- Look at colour and level of oil on dipstick
- check coolant level and colour, if engine cold.
- look at colour of transmission fluid on dipstick (should be translucent red) and check level when engine running in N or P.
- the auto gearbox should change up and down smoothly without jerks
- on going from P to D or R, it should engage in less than 1 sec.
- Check that the transfer case lever moves to engage 4WD and Low range (whilst auto box is in N)
- Check operation of lights, and other electrical systems, rear wiper, heaters etc
- look under the body, check condition of chassis,
- check the condition of springs and spring-mounts at each corner.
- Look at the prop-shafts. see if there are signs of grease and that they have been lubricated
- check condition of exhaust
- check around the body, particularly the rear quarters.
- look for signs of repair, uneven paintwork, overspray. and signs of filler and repairs
- check lower edges of doors for corrosion. remove rubber seal if necessary to check
- check closure lines of doors and condition of hinges, particularly drivers' door and look for cracks in the metal work surrounding the hinge welds
- check under the floor mats for condition of the floor pan and evidence of repairs
- check window winders and movement of glass
- tug at wiper arms and see if there is evidence of play on the wiper spindles.
- check that one key works on all locks and fuel cap
- check that key works smoothly in ignition lock
- drive the car, check for play in the steering wheel of more than 1 inch on the rim
- test the brakes and hand brake, which should hold well on 3rd click
- check the condition of brake discs and drums, are they rusty?
- wheels, tyres, are they in good condtio?
- Drive the car and see how it feels
take some detailed pictures which we can review in the evening, before the auction.
a good list, check front carpets for damp, this is another indicator of leaking window spindles,
look over the front wheel hubs, these should be shiny with a very light covering of grease, a build up of grease and mud on the edges of the silver ball suggests neglect.
the positioning of the rear exhaust over the fuel tank promotes rust on the fuel tank from the top down, the heat insulating material holds water, the heating and cooling effect of the exhaust cycle makes corrosion an inevitability, ideally this has been replaced with a plastic tank and the exhaust re routed as a side exit before the rear prop shaft.
Mud on the chassis indicates off road use and whilst it probably won't harm the chassis itself, if its on the chassis it will also be in the rear 3/4's promoting rust
check the kick down still works with the auto box
Buyer won't get to drive the car.
Take someone to look at it who knows about them.
I know where there's a lovely, doors off, glass out, freshly painted red 300gd auto that's only £8k.
If you are really after a SWB petrol Auto, then I would seriously try to see if you can negotiate a couple of thousand off this one
:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MERCEDES-G-WAGON-300GE-SWB-PETROL-BLACK-AUTOMATIC-LOW-MILAGE/161887953669?
Japanese ones tend to have been pampered, be genuine low miles, and have little or no corrosion anywhere.
Its a RHD, 1994 vintage with 71,000 miles.
Being a 463 version, it has permanent 4WD and also a more modern, 3 litre engine, with better fuel consumption than the 280.
I think in the end it will cost you less than that 280 GE.
much more car like, lots of w124 items in the passenger compartment, even an auto will give you 17 mpg
Another vote for the 463....
Good evening,and many thanks for all the posts !! especially " Arnie" and "prwales "
Plan to take all the very helpful notes to brightwells tomorrow
, but will view the 300 ex Japan if auction 280 is one is not worth pursuing ?
So second " thanks" to Arnie , ,of course that auction ends on Wednesday too
The 463 has more creature comforts, but perhaps more to go wrong ?? !!
Best
Mark
The 463 is an ebay listing, which ends on Wednesday. you can visit the dealer and make an offer and buy it any time before the end and it may not even sell by Wednesday, although apparently, there are many people 'watching' it.
It is located in Wanstead east London and you could see it tomorrow, time/distance permitting.
The 463 and the 460 are each a very different driving experience. The 460 is a great car, I can't say anything bad about it, and I still have a 300GD in the family. But the 463 is very much more refined and you have some good safety features like ABS (which can be switched-off for snow)
So far as reliability goes, I think there is little in it. The fuel injection system on the 463, 300GE, is however more advanced and replaces many electro-mechanical devices such as the warm-up regular on the 280, which uses bi-metallic strips and electric heaters, with an electronically controlled one, based on actual cylinder head temperature. Overall, It's still pretty basic, though, compared to more modern multi-point, fuel-injection systems, but has the advantage that the 'electronics'; are added as a layer on top of what is essentially a very reliable mechanical injection system, which uses the electronics for fine-tuning, but does not rely on them.
The auto gearboxes are both 4 speed hydraulically-controlled units, but the 463 version is a little more refined.
The 300GE comes with a sun-roof and air-conditioning, which is not that important in the UK , except for when we have the odd day of hot weather and the glass-house of the G-wagen become too hot.
Also, The AMG wheels on the 363 are quite rare and worth some money. The 460 has 15" alloys, for which the choice of tyres has become quite limited these days.
If you can get the 280GE and the 300GE for not too dissimilar prices, I would go with the 300GE any day. The 280GE auction listing mentions a previous full respray and that is a worry. Unless there are detailed pictures in its restoration file, it could leave you with rust in a year or so down the road. I know one or two people on this forum have found the same. It's easy to weld new panels, but no so easy to restore all the internal rust protection, in welded box-sections. The 300GE, I am willing to bet has its original paintwork and has never seen a spray booth. Also, the auction listing text for the 280GE has a lot of waffle about the G in general, but won't go as far a saying the mileage is genuine.. In Japan mileages are recorded and documented more thoroughly so i would be confident that the 300GE has a genuine 71,000 miles if the Japanese records are available. I also think that it won't be around too long at that price.
some general info here (albeit with regards to Japan - NewZealand, but could equally be UK):
http://www.buythiscar.co.nz/index.cfm?fuseaction=app.drawpage&p=18
Hi Mark,
Just some thoughts, and apologies if you are already a seasoned car auction buff in which case most of this won't apply:
1/ It's very easy to get caught up in he magic of buying what you think is a bargain at a car auction. Everything happens very quickly and before you know if you've upped your "maximum" bid buy a few hundred or even thousand pounds because you think "well, if someone else wants to buy it then it must be worth it".
Don't forget that there is a buyer's premium, which at Brightwells I think is 10% plus VAT. So a bid of £11,500 suddenly means that car costs you £12,880!!
2/ Give G-Centre of Birtsmorton Court, Worcestershire a call today, tell them it's up for auction and that you are interested in it, ask them if they remember this car and what information they can give you about it.
3/ Arnie's advice is all great - but much of what you really should do (drive it, check working of auto, brakes etc. etc.) isn't possible in an auction setting. That's one of the reasons everything else that you can check needs to be perfect.
4/ What you can do is check the paperwork, and it's DEFINITELY worth making a note of the owner's name and address so that, if it doesn't sell then you can contact him and have a proper look/drive and make a more considered decision/offer. The fact that it didn't sell might also make him more realistic on what he is prepared to sell it for.
5/ I see the "estimate" on this lot has been revised although I don't know if that's up or down. The top estimate isn't a huge amount lower than is being asked for that 463. I'd almost say that an extra £1,000 or £2,000 for a car that you can have a proper examination of and test drive rather than via an auction is a price worth paying.
6/ I'd just reiterate what was already said - a respray, especially a fairly recent one, can hide an awful lot of pain just down the road.
I should say that I am not entirely unbiased, I have a 463 G300 SWB auto and love it.
Good luck.
Evening All ,
Had a good look around the 460 today ( forgot to take photos though , sorry )
It has some corrosion after it`s recent paint job already bubbling through and a number of minor faults,
I did hear it running and may be worth a bid tomorrow , but not up to upper guide price for sure
A proper road test , as suggested ; is probably better for a novice like myself
Thanks again for all the help and posts
Mark
Sounds like a potential money pit. The 463 seems a safer bet. You have to get your head around just how pricey it can be to get a G into good shape if it's rusty &/or been neglected. They are not like "normal' cars and some parts are weird and wonderful in their pricing.
Rust bubbling through after only 10 months. That should definitely not be happening if the job was done properly.
Stand back for a minute and ask yourself "why is this person selling after putting so much money into it and why at an auction rather than privately where he might get a better price but only after much closer scrutiny".
Minor faults don't cost much to put right on most cars - but this is a G Wagon you're looking at here.
That 463 is looking a better bet all the time and I wouldn't worry too much about the "auction" ending soon. It'll probably get re-listed the following day. If it wasn't meant to be then it wasn't meant to be.
Once again, best of luck.
Ah ha!!
Someone who really does know their Gs on another site also went to look at this G today and his comments are:
i went to view this vehicle today
/ saggy headliner
/rot under the battery tray
/seized front brake calipers and knackered front discs
/ all the doors badly aligned after quick blowover paintjob.
/ rust already bubbling back through around the fuel filler neck
/ really crap repair to the front edge of the bonnet with mig wire and unpainted /treated metal
/ damage to interior trim in the boot area /back door misaligned and the seal is hanging off
plastic tank already fitted - interior is quite good
shame the g has been 'restored' it would of been better left alone and unmolested..
Hope you get to read this before the auction and it is of some help.
...shame the g has been 'restored' it would of been better left alone and unmolested..
How true! You can't cut corners on restoration. Either do it well or not at all. Anything in between will, in the end, cost more and possibly ruin the car.
Decide on your budget. if the Japanese 463 is more than what you are looking to spend, then take your time and find another 460 where you can properly test it, inspect it. and negotiate on it if it seems right. There are some great 460s out there.
If you are looking for a 'project', then find one where you don't also have to fix others' mistakes.
If that 463 is within your budget, don't think twice. A 463 generally won't leave you wanting a 460.
In the UK , you are normally looking at around £20k for a decent RHD 463 and those prices can make the W460 an attractive alternative and, to be fair the W460 has plenty of charm, character and capability. It also has many desirable features that were carried over to the new 461. But it is an older model and you'll want to find one that has been well looked after, maintained and serviced. Not one that's been dragged out of a field with seized calipers and given a quick respray to give it a veneer of presentability. Unfortunately, there are quite a few of these 'barn finds' around, as many were originally bought by farmers, used for 10 -20 years and then abandoned to the elements.
(Car ownership in Japan for vehicles over 10 years old becomes extremely coslty, which explains why this 463 has found its way to the UK. The seller appears to run a ZF gearbox and differential repair service, established over 40 years, so not sure how / why he has come to offer this particular G, but I would say it would be a better investment of your time to make a call or to go see it if it's within your budget.)
More comments from the knowledgeable one who went to look at this G yesterday:-
The cable running to the back door through the conduit was mangled and some of the wires were chafing through.
The underneath of the wheel arches were packed with mud and stones hiding who knows what ...
The radio was jammed into the dashboard with at least four wires being crushed around the sharp body of the unit .
The rubber seals around the hinge holes for the back door are rotted and perished despite these parts being available and cheap they were refitted making the quality and attention to detail of the vehicle appear even more questionable .
Despite there being a fairly large file of invoices and previous mot's there was NO invoice for the biggest and most expensive job of all , the full respray.
Surely this should be present given the gushing description of the vehicle and it's appraisal in the sales catalogue .
I assume the 'marque specialist ' mentioned are the painters and assemblers of the vehicle.
- poor job , there is plenty of work still needing to be done and money to spend.
I've emailed Axel's write up to Mark6, lets hope he sees it in time.
It sounded like Mark6 was going to take his chances at the auction, possibly in the hope of getting a bargain, rather than taking some very good advice and looking at the the SWB 463 that Arnie mentioned.
I suspect that the 460 would be no 'bargain' even at half the auction estimate !
It sounded like Mark6 was going to take his chances at the auction, possibly in the hope of getting a bargain, rather than taking some very good advice and looking at the the SWB 463 that Arnie mentioned.
I suspect that the 460 would be no 'bargain' even at half the auction estimate !
It sounded like Mark6 was going to take his chances at the auction, possibly in the hope of getting a bargain, rather than taking some very good advice and looking at the the SWB 463 that Arnie mentioned.
I suspect that the 460 would be no 'bargain' even at half the auction estimate !
I'll see your half and reduce it by another half.... :)
Good news, did not buy the 460 at Brightwells today
As suggested , some things are not meant to happen , registered to bid online , but my wife`s uncle was taken ill , so I missed the bidding altogether , almost certainly for the best !!
Many thanks for the updates and comments ,Ii was fortunate enough to have all the info from the expert who viewed what appears to be almost a "shiny project/ money pit !!
Today I have seen a G300TD LWB fitted with an OM606 engine and auto box in the Mercedes Benz club gazette,a 2000 model having covered 225,000 miles for £23,950 ! in Derbyshire ( I am in Staffordshire )
However I hope to view the 460 referred too imminently too
Many thanks again
Mark Hodgkinson
The G300td is advertised in the classified section of this board too. 'twas at the AGM recently.
The 460 at Brightwells yesterday seems to have sold for £9,100. That means £10,192 including the buyers premium.
The 460 at Brightwells yesterday seems to have sold for £9,100. That means £10,192 including the buyers premium.
Strangley it's not listed at all in the results section of the sale.
In fact lot 148 is something else. That said, in the sales listing it is listed as £9,100 so not clear if it was sold or not.
It has been sold for that price.
put the above comments from the person who went to view it to the auctioneers. Below is their reply. Beneath, there is also a reply from the owner at the time:
Dear .....
Sorry to hear that you were disappointed with the G-Wagen when you came to see it the other day. When we went to see the car and meet the owners it was clearly a much loved family member and had had a lot of money spent on it – far more than the bills would indicate. It was a real wrench for them to sell it and perhaps this coloured the way we viewed it, as it certainly looked and sounded like a well above average example to us. You obviously examined it rather more critically than we did and I can only apologise once again if you feel that our description was misleading in any way. There was certainly no intention to deceive.
As an aside, it may interest you to know that it did get sold in the end for £9,100 + premium so clearly there was someone else in the room who also shared at least some of our enthusiasm. Different people have different standards I suppose. We will try harder in future!
Best regards
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (name removed)
Classic Car Sales
Brightwells Limited
/ saggy headliner -
total bollards, headliner was perfect
/rot under the battery tray -
none last year when I took the battery out to charge it
/seized front brake calipers and knackered front discs not mentioned in MoT,
if seized maybe because it was stood at Brightwells for 5 or 6 weeks?
/ all the doors badly aligned after quick blowover paintjob.
nothing I'd noticed
/ rust already bubbling back through around the fuel filler neck bollards -
there wasn't rust there before the respray and I have photos to prove the pre-respray condition of that area
/ really crap repair to the front edge of the bonnet with mig wire and unpainted /treated metal
haven't a clue what he is talking about - is this the same car?
/ damage to interior trim in the boot area /back door misaligned and the seal is hanging off agreed trim torn in one spot, misaligned
- I'd not noticed seal probably wants sticking then after respray, no big deal
plastic tank already fitted - interior is quite good
- yes tank done, and I would say interior excellent for 26 year old car with original interior
shame the g has been 'restored' it would of been better left alone and unmolested..
yes because then you could have bought it for £4500 and made a profit, maybe you should save up and spend £60,000+ at your local MB dealer if you want one that is just a couple of years old.
I suppose if they say it's sold then it's sold.
Strange that they don't list it in the sales results list, and that lot 148, the original lot number, shows as being an unsold Porsche.
That said, they also publish the original listing, and lot 148 is listed as having achieved a hammer price of £9.1K
If it has sold, then someone has bought a very expensive G.
if your heart is set on a ge280, this one is cheap enough to be worth considering, the plastic tank is a great improvement on standard and as the interior matches it seems a genuine black car
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mercedes-280-GE-G-Wagon-Wagen-/272048965160?ha...
if your heart is set on a ge280, this one is cheap enough to be worth considering, the plastic tank is a great improvement on standard and as the interior matches it seems a genuine black car
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mercedes-280-GE-G-Wagon-Wagen-/272048965160?ha...
Do you want to look at this ?
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Thanks ianA2
Yes that one, lot 148
Mark